There is a difference between killing and not saving.
Killing makes for boring stories. The Punisher is a great example of a 2 dimensional character.
Batman has on many occasions wanted to kill. And certainly run the city red with blood should he decide to. We see a good representation of this in Under the Red Hood. When Jason confronts him about not killing Joker. “It’d be to damn easy. Not a day has gone by that I haven’t thought about subjecting him to every kind of torture, then end him. But, if I go to that place, I’ll never come back.”
That is a strong psychological statement about Batman, and often overlooked. He understands that there is a very thin he walks that is what makes him better than the villains he battles. It is also not his mission to be judge, jury and executioner. It is actually to try and protect. If he crosses that line, he will no longer protect.
And yes, you don’t want to kill off good villains, they are hard to come by.
As for why he cares that Jason kills, there’s about 35 tons of analysis of his own guilt to unpack that one.
Batman is an individualist. His origin is an experience that instilled in him the belief that the intentional taking of a life is wrong. In his mind, if it’s wrong, it’s always wrong, and killing even to prevent other killings would be hypocritical because both he and his enemies are responsible for their own actions. If the Joker kills someone, that’s on the Joker, and if Batman kills someone, that’s on Batman. I don’t know if “pacifism” is exactly the word for it, since he has no compunctions about force up to lethal force, but it’s at least related to pacifism.
He’s smart enough not to pick fights with the police over legally defensible killing, but I don’t think he approves.
I kind of took that as more of an accidental death. Yes, Batman was technically responsible, as he’d tackled Dent, but it wasn’t his intent to kill him. He didn’t righteously pick him up over his head and drop him two stories to the ground, it was the unintended result of a struggle initiated to save Jim’s son. I think that’s an important distinction.
after reading all the replies im noticing a lot of defending of why batman is against killing personally. again i get that. But consider this scenario. Cobblepot, two-face, etc. gets caught, goes though the corrupt Gotham justice system, gets something akin to a slap on the wrist, and is soon back on the streets of Gotham putting innocent people in harm. maybe they are killing, maybe they are ruining lives beyond repair in other ways (the bat villains are twisted). Why would anyone go out of their way to stop someone else from doing their job. I like the argument that Jason is part of the bat family so he feels responsible and doesn’t want operating like that, at-least in gothem. that is a solid argument. witch only leaves the question: Do you think he would extend this sense of obligation past the bat-fam and other heroes, onto say maybe the GCPD? would batman go out of his way to keep an officer of the law from killing a criminal in the line of duty? how does Bruce feel about armed officers and in extension the armed forces?
But what we don’t know is if it was a deep seated psychological issue that drives Batman’s occasional urge not to kill but not to save either. That is something I’ve yet to see comic books, film or animation even attempt to tackle that premise.
There is something deep into the character that can allow for hoisting one’s own petard. He knows he does it, which is usually followed shortly there after with something at a minimum resembling guilt.
From my point of view, I think Batman would be just fine with it if the state legally decided to give the death penalty to some of these characters. But executing someone in the street is beyond what a civilized society should be, and Batman would never condone that. From any hero, period. Justifiable killing by a police officer is not the same thing.
I think that for a select few, he holds them to a higher standard. Superman in particular. But, like it or not he feels some sense of responsibility towards the Bat-Family (probably in no small part due to Alfred’s influence).
I dint think Batman is a pacifist. I don’t think he views police or the military taking lives in the course of duty. Would he intervene in the case of say a cop going to use lethal force simply because that cop felt they could, not that they had to. I could see Batman stepping in to that situation.
I’ve always thought it was interesting that Thomas Wayne was a doctor, rather than a lawyer. But, I can see why they made him a doctor, in a sense Batman wants a world where the first rule is do no harm. I think that’s certainly why he has had his bouts and doubts on if his parents would approve of “the mission”.
I also think that his belief in letting the judicial system work is born from Alfred, and the “Golden thread that runs through British justice”.
Of course, the legality of Batman’s actions were even fuzzier in the Golden Age. On the one hand, we see him most certainly killing people in his first year. On the other hand, the police department eventually goes from hunting him to outright endorsing him:
Kinda hard to call him a vigilante after Jim gives him a badge. But by that point, Batman had renounced killing, and this official recognition by the police doesn’t change that.
I saw that and immediately wondered how much a diamond-studded Batman badge would have to cost. I think it would be custom made, although in Gotham, who knows? I wonder how Gotham taxpayers would feel about that, although they probably have a ton of bigger concerns than the police department budget going to a diamond-studded Batman badge.
Oh, I think he does. If you’re referring to Mike Grell’s run, that was really treated as almost it’s own little world, so for sake of its own story, I think it’s safe to pretend our good ol’ Batfriend doesn’t exist.
I’m not all real familiar with JLU (forgive me!), so you got me there, but from what I recall Batman was absolutely not a fan of Huntress during her days as a killer.
Putting it all together: I would say he does care and never condones any killing outside the bounds of the law; however, he only has the time to actively stop a murderous vigilante when it’s one of his own. He can’t put out all fires everywhere.
in the animated JLU, i am fairly certain she is excluded from the team because of the way she does things. i believe this is talked about in the team-up episode with her and GA
Yeas, but it’s true that Jonn and Superman are the two most adamant voices. I can see where Shiera and Diana really wouldn’t care, and I’m not sure Stewart would either. And while Wally would certainly be against it, he’d be far to busy checking out her rack to chide her.
