Batman Makes Love to Catwoman, Right?

If Snyder says one thing then the opposite is true in my world. I must send that impostor he filmed to Arkham for mass murder and trying to kill my best friend.

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When I was a kid there was this comic about a super bear.

They wanted to introduce a child bear in the family in the comic.

The caption read:
“That night they hugged each other for a long time”

Very innocent.

That was probably some 37 years ago and it’s pretty much the only “adult scene” in a comic I ever put to memory.

Why? Because it was meaningful, tender, and had a lasting impact that still affects the comic today. It does not have to be explicit to be its best version.

Of course they do what they do in comics as well, but in 99.9% of the times there would be no call for it to be included. It doesn’t further the plot, it would just be there for all the meaningless reasons. Just like in the movies. And comics biggest weakness is wasting page estate.

As for the HQ show they would probably do it about 100% for the shock value and testing the limits. Maybe for the HQ show that would be the right call. It’s kind of their whole thing. It’s already very much an adult show. Also, the train for preserving Batman’s innocence as a character passed decades ago.

I still think DC might have made the right call though. HQ does not just do it to press the limits. It should also be funny. Maybe it wasn’t.

Either way HQ should have just left it instead of making it a thing. As it trended - a lot of places that aren’t adult only were flooded with the subject, graphical and not. That’s also why you should always consider what you’re doing in a broader sense. The borders and age restriction ratings you imagine that protects the children might only exist in theory and in your mind.

Maybe it’s better if Batman just doesn’t do that in comics, and for those who still want him to do that, I’m sure there are places that caters to those wishes.

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My opinion is… if they want to make adult comics… they should just make adult characters specifically for those comics.

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I agree.
Some things are probably best left to fanfiction and underground comix.

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Agreed. This whole thing wouldn’t have blown up if this was never revealed in the first place.

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oh i bet the reporters were trying to find something to make a headline out of, and asked like “is there something that was too shocking” or something to that effect, sidenote this is a case of decent reason when you think about it but choosing to use something else as your argument

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This is probably the best stance on the issue, honestly. Let Harley Quinn be Harley Quinn.

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You know, I think it’s worth mentioning that I don’t think anyone is genuinely upset that this specific scene won’t happen. Like, I think most people are upset with the reason given for cutting the scene rather than the scene being cut. The idea that providing for your partner in this way is unheroic is such a weird stance to take. It feels like such an unmodern, regressive, and even misogynistic mindset to take. It reminds me of when they had the no marriage rule back in the New 52.

So, yeah, tldr: it’s not that the scene is gone, it’s the reason given for cutting it that people are upset about.

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Agreed. The argument that’s escalated from this isn’t about wanting to see Batman perform a particular sexual act on Catwoman, it’s about wanting to see true creative freedom on a show that claims to be adult and uncensored.

This is no different than the Batman: Damned controversy.

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:100: :raised_hands:

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I’m not sure if it’s too late in production to make any script changes, but it’d be pretty hilarious to see the show respond to all of this by having a scene where Selina says she dumped Bruce because he wouldn’t go down on her. Because if there’s any woman for whom that’d be a dealbreaker, it’s 100% Catwoman :laughing:

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The show has never been “explicit” in terms of depicting intimacy, so watching it absolutely isn’t the point— this is about :point_right: double standards. With all the violence, innuendo and flat out absurdity delivered at the expense of female characters, its no real surprise they’d draw the line at specifically female pleasure; But make NO mistake, its the same reason it took 75yrs to make a Wonder Woman movie, female characters are still the only ones who fight crime half naked, and LGBTQ rep is disproportionately female: It’s antiquated, and sexist. :facepalm_catwoman: Whether or not the story broke isn’t the issue either. It’s always there, and things like this don’t change if we keep blindly sweeping it under the rug.

I’m not afraid of sexuality or violence. They have places where they work and places where they don’t. I’m talking about subjectivity vs objectivity—context, subtext, and accountability matter. Why wasn’t a compromise put forward (for an adult show) when acts like these have been (unevenly) implied before, and how do they not see that this exact couple is what gives the scene layers and positive meaning?

Ignoring context and subtext, treats the symptom instead of the cause. We could take the easy (and rather privileged) route and chalk the show up to vulgarity and shock value, but the reality to many is this: They’ve consistently told multiple honest and poignant stories, both platonic and romantic, while embracing all aspects of femininity. HQAS is actually one of the more thoughtful creations DC has offered. Perhaps get out of the way, and let them tell this story too? Just a thought. :balance_scale: Acknowledge there’s more than one kind of consumer, and what your censorship really says while you’re at it, DC. :purple_heart: P&ty.

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We should honestly just end the thread at this point because there’s no way to top this post. You’ve hit everything right on the money. DC’s continued misogynistic and sexist double standards have gone on for far too long and I think that all of us fans really need to be more vocal about our opposition to it.

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I think the only reason why the show runners said anything, was they thought it was amusing.

The Harley Quinn cartoon is a hilarious satire of DC, fans and the company itself. The fact that DC allowed blood, death and destruction but something loving may be “too much”

It reminds me of a scene in the show. Damian Robin is talking to Batman about his “first arch enemy”. Batman is right there, giving all of the great fatherly advice that sounds strangely like the “first kiss” talk.

But the second Damian wants to talk about all night cuddles: Batman grapple guns out of there.

Kinda like how most American Media treats violence in comparison to love!

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You will find no arguments coming from me that DC is plagued with problems with female representation, but is this really one of those cases? I admittedly do not read all DCs comics, but do they really depict “male pleasure” in the comics? If they do I truly agree with you, but I have never seen it.

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I think it’s fine in some situations. If a hero is the one having intercourse, I think it should be with someone they love, not just a one-time thing because, in my opinion, that’s not very heroic. For a villain/anti-hero, it makes sense to just do whatever because, let’s be real, the villains don’t really care for too many people other than themselves.

That being said, I don’t think comics/DCTV/DC movies should have too much sex/sex appeal in them. If they focus too much on the romance/sex, it kind of takes away from the superheroism, imo.

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This is a post that genuinely made me think a lot. That being said, the few sentences I quoted are ones that I don’t 100% agree with. Yes sometimes DC can be wrong and sexist, but I don’t believe that it’s only an issue with female characters. I think DC has been trying, especially over the past few years, to remove those barriers between LGBTQIA+ characters + females and the straight male characters. Hell, they took a ginormous risk by making SUPERMAN bisexual. I think they’ve also fixed the costume problem with women (mostly). The readers can’t really see any cleavage with most female characters’ costumes anymore, and there are definitely a lot more female heroes now, like Naomi, Nubia, and Val-Zod.

Additionally, you pointed out that it took DC 75 yrs to make a Wonder Woman movie, and, while I agree that’s a bad thing, DC did make one. They wouldn’t have done that if they weren’t trying to get past their early issues of sexism.

Basically, I do think DC is trying their best with overcoming the sexism/racism/homophobia that the older comics have shown.

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I hesitate to wade into this discussion, but I feel like I should say something on behalf of Wonder Woman fans, and female superhero fans generally. Just because progress has been made, doesn’t mean there is no more work to do. It’s been over 5 years now since WW became the highest grossing superhero origin film (at the time). But still she is the only member of the Trinity never to have her own animated show. Her 80th has come and gone with still no change there.

I’m here reading comics because of the WW movies. How much sooner would I have discovered this medium I now love if an animated show existed when I was a kid? I used to watch the Batman and Superman cartoons, and as an adult I watched many, many superhero movies - neither compelled me to seek out comics before Wonder Woman. Representation really does matter.

Sorry this is a bit of a tangent…I know things are better now, I guess my point is that sexism is still a problem. It does seem to me that DC is making a great deal of progress in the comics themselves (you pointed out Jon Kent) - I’d just like to see it expanded to the other mediums DC deals in.

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im not saying that, just saying that they’re trying

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