But seeing a father element and a romantic element brings out that humanity for me. It brings a new level of energy to Batman. It’s like seeing him finally get something of out 90 years of constant death and destruction. All he’s ever had in his history is pain.
But this is something light, something I’ve always kind of wanted to see Batman go through. It sounds like the perfect ending to the story. But I don’t think fans want to except that. It would be nice if this is going along with the 5G stuff.
Admittedly, Batman has gotten a bit far fetched in recent memory. He has departed from the realm of realism. But part of what makes Batman so good is that he’s Batman. He shouldn’t be able to do what he does. But he can, that’s what makes him Batman!
If Bruce is happy he can’t be Batman. That’s my thinking. Happiness for Bruce equals retirement. It’s been explored already. If this is the end for Bruce as Batman then I’m totally for it.
I’ve always viewed Bruce as the worlds greatest detective/navy seal/kung fu ninja/gadget junkie. When writers think that he can fight Superman or New Gods I lose it. I don’t care if he has the strongest mind on the planet. I just don’t buy it.
He doesn’t need the new family for happiness. Showing him love his existing family would’ve been enough for me. It’s like the writers think he needs a typical nuclear family to be loved and loving.
If they want to show his humanity, and I’m not being sarcastic here, take him down with something human. Maybe have him miss a few days of work with the flu. I do the parenting thing and don’t care to read about it if I’m honest. I did the marriage thing too. Not interested.
Edit: sorry about all the typos. Using my phone today.
@Kon-El you bring up some interesting points. Does happiness end Batman? I think that’s what Tom King was asking in his run. If he finds comfort in a relationship or some semblance of family life, does that take away the Bat? Perhaps. His whole spiel is based on childhood trauma. Neutralize that trauma… do we still have a Batman? Maybe if we can allow some character evolution in our minds. Perhaps the trauma is what triggered it and fueled him for so long, but using all the skills he’s picked up over the years to make a better world for his family is what would keep him going? Mayhaps. It depends on how it’s approached, in my opinion. I like Tom King’s run overall, but I think he went a bit overboard with the psychoanalysis, which made parts of it a bit of a drag to read (for me). Also, as I mentioned before… hopefully the comic doesn’t become about that. As good as I thought Rebirth Superman was (for the most part it worked really well)… there were some issues that almost solely focused on the family aspect. Whole I obviously don’t begrudge Clark being a family man, it’s not exactly what I’m seeking when I dig into one of his books (the internet is gonna start pelting me with stones now that I said that).
At the end of the day, we all want to be entertained… and we all have different preferences. Which is why I wish DC would do more stand alone out of continuity stories with the big 3 that are not constricted to a certain history or master plan. It gives readers more choice and the creative teams more of an opportunity to let loose. This having a child with Selena business is a good example of that in my opinion. It does seem however that they’re doubling down on the master plan stuff with 5G, so moot point.
This post was all over the place; sorry.
Bookmarked your comment. At some point I’m going to check out some stories from the runs you mentioned. Perhaps it would give me a different angle on Batman than the one I’m used to.
I’m glad you’re going to check out some older Batman stuff. I’m a big fan. It’s not necessarily known as “the best”, but it’s really good stuff.
I understand you have to give the writers some freedom to do what they want with the character, but as it stands I barely recognize the character. I grew up on a darker Batman that did most of his stuff alone. When I started you had Jim, Alfred, Dick, Babs, and Jason (for a second). They worked in Gotham and occasionally bumped into the metas. He was not cool with the Justice League and led the rogue team “The Outsiders.”
I love Batman, but Batman now isn’t the Batman from then. He shouldn’t be…but he shouldn’t be so different that he feels like a different character altogether.
Note: one of the few things I really liked about the JL move was that Batman admitted he couldn’t necessarily handle everything. He was human and the job was going to get him killed sooner or later. He was out of his league in the “League.”
If you’re going to have so many characters in the Bat Family…well, maybe just don’t have so many. I agree some out of continuity series would be great. Hopefully Black Label. I’m experiencing new character fatigue. In the past 30 years or so we’ve gotten a bit carried away.
Jason Todd is back.
It’s just a lot to me. If you read the stuff that I’m talking about, even just a couple of issues, I think you’ll see where I’m coming from. I think the size of the family is why I’m against a baby more than anything. Then the stories that would spin out of that have very limited appeal to me too.
I completely agree, Bruce Wayne can’t be batman if he’s happy, Mask of the Phantasm basicly explains the whole thing. If bruce were to be happy, then he would be distracted and his mission would be compromised, Batman should inspire others to find happieness and not become him, like inspiring Dick to be better then him. If his mission is compromised, then what happend in crime ally will happen again with someone eles and that is batman’s greatest fear. Batman is a compusion that bruce must fallow and protect, For someone like Dick as Batman, it is a chioce to be Batman and give into darkness because he was raised well and can see the goodness in people. I am OK with the marriage because it makes sense, Catwoman lives the same life style as Batman, so i can see it sort of working out. Them having a kid and fighting crime, that’s bad parenting. Modern Batman is a mess, they have moved away from the dark gritty realism of Year One, The Long Halloween, and Dark Knight Returns that made Batman grounded and real, and have instead made him a pillar of hope, when he should’nt be. He should be the guy fighting for the other guy, the common man, I have been reading Knightfall Lately and the contrast between Past and now is huge. Sorry if this is me Ranting some more, but batman is a cautionary tale about obession and trauma, him being happy is everything the character doesn’t represent.
But also it is great with his character growth because he is starting to learn that it isn’t all about his mission if you just want the same old Batman then go read a old comic book life is about growth and experience if you don’t like that then you can leave this site and stick your thumbs up your ass.
I think that’s the point. Who is Batman when distracted from the mission? I’m not sure it’s possible. If he’s worried about a true family how does he operate? He can’t have that much to lose and function in the role. Am I thinking about that the wrong way?
I like Tom Kings run in concept, I think that in some point (like Cold Days) it can be genius, Batman slowly starts to fall in love with Catwoman and they get married, great, that is a story I will read, it feels like a good progression of the character. However, the exicusion I found to be disapointing and underweelming. Then throw the fact the two will have a kid and it seems a little much for me.
But you are right, we are geting all workd up about a man who dresses as a Bat. the creatos are playing with the characters and since a reboot is coming up soon, they should get the chance to play with the character. I may disagree with what they do, but they should be allowed to play with it.
Now that you mentioned letting the writers play with the characters, I can’t help but think of @DeSade-acolyte’s take on writers breaking the toys. Let’s invite him to this convo. What say you Desade? Is daddy bat a broken bat?
If real, and I am leaning towards it being more like a what if story, we all know the character won’t last. They will be written off when Selina and Bruce break up, or kidnapped, rapidly aged and raised as an enemy, or Bruce walks away next time they make him antsy and brooding, or just plain old referenced but never really seen.
Or the worst possible, Bendis takes creative control.
Not personally a fan of the idea. I wasn’t a fan of it when they did it with Earth-2’s Bat & Cat. So it is not a complete break of the toys, but, like the Earth-2 version, it is a big bend, IMO.
I have always looked at Bruce and Alfred as people who pick up “orphans and strays”, because Bruce himself is an orphan. And part of the mission is to make sure what happened to him never happens to anyone else. Perhaps with Alfred gone, they need a nurturer and Selina having hher own baby would likely bring that out in her.
But, I think it lasts only as long as Alfred is dead. Once my beloved Mr. Pennyworth shows back up, and eventually he will. This retcon will (hopefully) be wiped.
Interesting to link those two together like that (Alfred’s death and Bruce & Selina’s potential child).
The prospect of Alfred eventually returning, or any other “retcons” really, is one of the reasons why I don’t really take continuity that seriously. Easier to try & enjoy (or not) the story at hand without overthinking what came before or after. That’s a topic for a different thread though. Sorry for the tangent.
As for Bat/cat baby affecting the mission, I personally think it depends on how it’s handled. I think the need for making the world (or Gotham) a safer, more just place, would only be emphasized once he brings a child into this world… couple that with the fact that in no way could he be a typical father… and maybe it can bring some good tension into the stories. But if we end up Bruce attending school recitals (which I’m sure some folks would like to see), then yeah… things are broken.