I’m not even sure what henpecked means.
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I don’t think it’s effeminate or weak that Batman needed help but I do think King went to the “Catwoman is my secret weapon” well too many times. Just in the final issues it was up to Selina to help with Bane and then with Thomas. In some ways I think this a Selina story more than a Batman story.
I think the trend has been to “humanize” Bruce for a very long time but it has ultimately left him neutered. Not in a “man must not need woman” way I just don’t think he has been written as an independent and capable person for a long time. It’s not that he benefits from help it’s that he requires help.
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I think the have pushed that since the Batfam started.
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I mean that there’s a certain kind of fan who seems to think Catwoman being an equal partner to Batman is emasculating in some way. Since that clearly isn’t Tom King’s view on the subject, if they are getting that out of the run it probably says more about their own insecurities than it does about King’s actual views on Batman. It’s not all people who didn’t like the last 85 issues, but if you’re throwing around words like ‘weak’ and ‘effeminate’ to describe this version of Batman (who went through hell both physically and psychologically over the course of the run and came out the other side stronger than ever) you might have a problem with more than the writing.
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Ohhhh I see, just wanted to confirm that you were basically gaslighting fellow comic readers just because they had a different opinion of how King depicted Batman.
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I’d agree that King leaned on that particular twist a little too many times, but I like a Batman who needs help a lot more than the ‘with enough preparation he can beat anyone’ take on the character.
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Glad we cleared that up.
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And I like the always prepared Batman. I think some see it that his stumbles make him human (and they do) but I like that he’s a human who goes beyond to stand toe to toe with gods. I like early JLA Batman but not to the Bat god level some went to. One of my favorite new Bat moments is in issue 1 of Kings of Fear when the rogues are trapped with him in Arkham and they’re terrified. Or I think in Detective when he goes to Arkham and seeks answers about Leslie Thompkins. He was pissed and you knew he was going to get what he wanted and for a moment (to me) he was awesome again. Batman is rarely in control these days. I don’t want him invincible all of the time but I like capable Batman who scares people because to them he’s not human. I liked the Justice Buster suit in Endgame but when it goes overboard like the mech in Bloom or flying Hall of Justice that’s too much. I’m tired of him failing or winning through luck.
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And. I like the growth that he will seek and accept help I’m just sick of him “needing” help.
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The thing is that superheroes are supposed to be something we aspire to be. They’re not supposed to be us. I disagree with the idea that they need to “be more human” or “humanize” which effectively means “more like us.” When I want real life I’ll watch the news. I don’t need to be more like Black Panther - royalty, richest man in the world, black - to enjoy the character and his comics even though I’m a regular Joe Slob, poor, and white.
And the “says more about the reader” was dismissive of valid points and unnecessarily adversarial. People can agree to disagree without making things personal.
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I’m thinking you are replying to me to show we are in agreement on Batman being the pinnacle of human effort. Having and counting on the Bat family is a good thing but he’s supposed to be the best of the bunch, at least while he’s active.
Or you just hit the wrong button because your bottom point wasn’t me.
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You completely misunderstood the entirety of the run. Batman is human. Sad you don’t get it.
King wasn’t fired. He has a follow up mini to finish his run…
I’m at a loss… this feels like a pro/anti trump sort of thing. I’m not specifically trying to bring politics up, but it’s the best analogy. If you understood what Tom king did, this was a masterpiece. If you didn’t… he was destroying your ideology. Am I wrong?
Yes I was agreeing with you. Sorry for the lack of clarity. 
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I understood what he was trying to do. I just don’t like it. I’m an English/Lit teacher. I don’t like deconstructing superheroes to see what makes them tic. It damages the mythology — and this stuff IS American mythology on par with that if the ancient Greeks.
These characters don’t belong to the creators. They belong to us. The creators often forget this and do silly things - like killing Alfred. The progressive drop in sales suggest more and more people dropped his run than began picking it up.
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I havent even read this run but Im pleased to see we can all have our opinions and not attack each other over a book
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That’s not to say that those who liked it are in any way wrong. Individuals have individual tastes and many people loved King’s run. I didn’t dislike all of it. The war of jokes and riddles was great. The first story on the Gotham Duo was good. Later - for me - it began dragging and some of the dialogue began to resemble that of a college freshman lit class. I’m just generally displeased with the run as it has progressed because it removed some of a Batman’s mystique and I don’t see that as a good thing.
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Actually, King got interviewed by EW and he said that the Bat/Cat mini has nothing to do with his run, and that it’s meant to be kinda standalone (I think his exact words were, “my own TDKR”)
Link:
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Yes, I miss the mystique. I liked urban legend Batman but I guess my thoughts on this are taking the thread away from the specifics of #85. Each author has their own signature and characters change and grow but I hope Batman can settle into a little relaxed escapism for awhile.
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