Arrowverse Couch Club, Week 7: May 3-5 Episodes


And then there were four! We’re finally back to our full slate of Arrowverse shows, as Supergirl came back from its long break to rejoin Batwoman, The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. We’ve got to enjoy them while they last, though, as the premature finales are quickly approaching, starting with Flash next week. But let’s focus on the good stuff for now, as we’ve got plenty to discuss from four brand-new episodes.

Batwoman – “If You Believe in Me, I’ll Believe in You”

  • Two of the big developments from this week is that not only is Reagan working with her sister, Magpie, but that Julia has a hidden agenda of her own in going after Lucius’ journal. How do you think these reveals will affect Kate going forward, especially as she’s finally welcomed Mary as a third member of the team?

Supergirl – “Deus Lex Machina”

  • For the second year in a row, Lex Luthor was revealed to be behind many of the season’s big developments, including the death of Jeremiah Danvers. Did you think this was an interesting move, or has Lex overstayed his welcome by this point?
  • Melissa Benoist made her directorial debut this episode, joining a growing list of Arrowverse actors to do so within their own show. Are there any other Arrowverse actors you’d like to see take on that role?

The Flash – “Pay the Piper”

  • Over the course of this show, Hartley Rathaway has gone from enemy to ally to enemy and now (apparently) back to ally. Do you prefer him in this back-and-forth role or would you rather he settle into just one side? If it’s the latter, enemy or ally?

Legends of Tomorrow – “Ship Broken”

  • This episode shed a lot of light on Sara’s “magical illness” that Caity Lotz teased last year, as she now has the ability to see into people’s futures at the cost of her own sight. Regardless of how long this sticks around, do you think it’s a good move to give Sara a superpower after all these years?

Lastly, what episode was your favorite?

  • Batwoman – “If You Believe in Me, I’ll Believe in You”
  • Supergirl – “Deus Lex Machina”
  • The Flash – “Pay the Piper”
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “Ship Broken”

0 voters

1 Like

Trust issues seem to come naturally to any Bat, and this episode definitely reinforced that Kate’s not gonna be an exception to that. Considering that Julia has already been working w/ her and Luke on the team directly, finding out about whatever her agenda really is could very well motivate Kate to not want to expand the team any more, which I think would probably be a good move. Most of the Arrowverse shows seem to feel like they need a full support team around the hero, and while it’s not an inherently bad idea, it is one that’s becoming a bit tiring. Kate, Luke and Mary already have a fantastic dynamic between just the three of them, and keeping OTB (Original Team Batwoman) on the small side could be a great move to keep the group from getting overcrowded and allow for continued, meaningful development between them.

Additionally, while they didn’t interact during the episode, I also think Julia and Reagan’s secrets could very well be a driving factor in getting Kate and Sophie back together. Soon enough, Kate’s gonna realize that of her three love interests, Sophie’s the only one who hasn’t tried to deceive her this season. They’d certainly still have other issues to work out, but it may still be enough for Kate to want to rekindle that relationship similar to how she almost did after killing Cartwright. Hell, it may even give her the motivation to reveal her identity as Batwoman.

Definitely the latter in my opinion. I’ve been really disappointed by the way Lex has been written this season compared to last. In season 4, not only did the character feel a lot more fresh, but the show was a lot more efficient in using him sparingly so that he wasn’t stealing a ton of screen time from other characters, but he still managed to establish this dominating presence that really stole the season.

A year later, however, and things have really changed. Lex has already appeared in more episodes than he did last year w/ that total set to grow in the last two episodes, and I feel like this has come at the expense of interesting development for other characters, especially Lena and Brainy. In addition, the way this episode revealed his secret plotting felt way too familiar to that same sort of reveal last year w/ Red Daughter and Kaznia. I just feel like the writers aren’t doing enough to keep his character interesting, which is a shame considering that Jon Cryer is clearly still putting his all into the performance.

To really see the negative impact that Lex is having on the show at this point all you have to do is look back to season 2, episode 18. That was when Lena delivered one of the most badass lines on the show: “Oh I wouldn’t know, I’ve never stood behind a man.” It was such a character-defining moment, but now? She’s been figuratively and literally standing behind Lex throughout the back half of this season.

I think it’s past time for Supergirl to ditch Lex and have him return to Metropolis where we can finally see the full rivalry between him and Superman & Lois. Whether as a guest star, a regular or something in between, Lex’s villainy would now be much better suited on that show than this.

Even though TV directors don’t have as much influence over the final product as the writers, it’s still great to see these actors take on something they’re really interested in and hone their skills for possible future experiences, and Melissa was no exception here. I think it would be cool to see Ruby Rose, Maisie Richardson-Sellers and Nick Zano take on episodes of Batwoman and Legends, as they’ve all had some light directing experience before.

I’ve enjoyed Hartley as both a hero and a villain, but I do find the dynamic a bit tiring at this point, so I’m kinda conflicted on this. If there was still a chance he could become a proper Rogue then I’d probably go w/ villain, but since that’s almost definitely not gonna happen, I’ll say that I hope he stays an ally. Not only could his knowledge of vibrational frequencies continue to be important for Team Flash, but I think the way his character’s been portrayed does lend itself better to the side of good. Though he can definitely be arrogant, he still clearly cares about people as evidenced by his relationship w/ Roderick. There’s still some healing that would need to happen, especially when it comes to his rivalry w/ Cisco, but hopefully he can become a reliable friend to the team who shows up more than just once a year.

While I don’t want this be a permanent change, I do think this kind of temporary shift can be pretty entertaining and interesting for the rest of the season. The tradeoff between blinding Sara in exchange for being able to see briefly into a person’s future ensures that she’s not suddenly going to be overpowered, though I could see it being used a lot not only because of its usefulness, but also because right now it’s the only way Sara can see anything. And as she mentioned, her assassin training will still allow her to fight more than effectively w/out actual vision, so it could be pretty cool to see some Daredevil elements added to her fighting style. That said, I hate to think of her going too long w/out actually getting to look at Ava, so I do hope that her vision’s restored by the end of the season.


I think the episode would have worked better if we have seen Lex less and then this was him just popping up again. The few episodes last season where he gets into a helicopter and leaves explosions behind him were some of my favorite scenes. But, since he’s been featured so heavily post-crisis I think he’s definitely been seen around the blocks of National City a little too long now. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve loved this portrayal of Lex, but not at the expense of all the other characters.

The first half of season before the crossover was SO strong, in my opinion, I thought this would be my favorite season yet, but what does Lena even do now? She went from this super powerful (pun intended) character that ran two companies and used her smarts to help many people. Now she basically works in a windowless lab all day working on a scheme for revenge (for her best friend), while being manipulated by her brother. I keep waiting for the episode where they show Lena actually being smart and has been working “on the inside” to take down Lex, but unfortunately I think I have my hopes too high there.

Nia’s never around. Alex gets a few scenes with Jonn. William is basically useless. I really thought Andrea’s story was getting very interesting around 507, 508 when she helps Jonn and would become a strong ally, but it’s basically wiped out. A Brainy’s storyline just doesn’t have another screen time to be meaningful.

This has been bugging me. Lex has expressed that Kara has to keep working for him/the DEO because he knows her identity. Why don’t they just erase his mind? Yea he would still run the DEO but at least they could take him down easier??

Don’t have a big opinion on a future director? Maybe Jesse Rath? Since I love the way he plays all the brainys.

1 Like

I haven’t finished Flash so I’ll be back later for that.

1 Like

I was just thinking about the “I don’t stand behind a man” line and then that picture has Lena standing behind a man. :joy: oh Supergirl…

1 Like

The quality drop-off from 5A to 5B has been insane, and Lena’s treatment is really a big indicator of that. This sort of reveal is one of the only things that would explain why Lena would work w/ Lex after everything that had happened, but I’m also continuing to lose faith that the show will do the right thing in regards to her. What’s even more frustrating is that whatever resolution they had in mind for Lena will have to wait until at least the fall, and with Melissa potentially being out of commission even after productions resume, it may be an even longer wait than that for season 6

While I did appreciate the efforts of the recent episodes that focused on them, it’s just not enough to sideline main characters like that throughout the season, then give them 1 episode each and say you’ve properly developed them. It has to stay consistent, and that’s been a big problem for these 2 this season, even through 5A

After everything that happened w/ Malefic, I can’t imagine that J’onn would be willing to do something like that again, even w/ Lex

And a big reason I’m losing faith with that explanation is this seasons past treatment of her. I mean I know Lex has always been a problem for Lena but to spend 3 seasons building up a character like Lena to be strong and the smartest in the room and then what 6-ish episodes post crisis with Lex and that’s all wiped away? I guess I’m just disappointed the direction my favorite character has taken. I also hope for a better resolution for season 6.

Yup, you’re right. Totally forgot about that. I remember Jonn even saying about Alex that he couldn’t give Alex her memories back because it was too dangerous.

1 Like

I loved this episode. Classic Gary. I love the way they use his character. He cares so much about the legends and helping them out, but always just makes everything worse. Who pays him now?

On Sara’s illness, honestly Ava seemed more upset than Sara did. When Gideon was fixed they said there was nothing wrong with her eyes, so maybe when Charlie’s sisters are defeated she will get her eyesight back? Anyways, I think it was a good idea. It’s not a usual power, like flight or super strength, so I think it’s a good addition. The power could even develop and they could find fun ways to use it. I have full faith in the writers that I’m sure whichever way they go with her power I’ll enjoy it. Mick’s daughter says at one point “wow, you all have a power!” I’ve never thought of the legends as a bunch of superheroes, so I think it’s fine. I’ve always thought of them along the lines of time travelers who get into crazy schemes to make things work.


My thoughts exactly. Lena’s remained my favorite character on the show throughout all of this, but these developments haven’t been great to say the least. It almost feels like once the writers were finally able to get their hands on Lex, they just wanted to shift their attention to him. Like they had to settle for Lena at 1st but then finally got the Luthor they actually wanted. I’ll always be grateful for the show bringing Cryer’s brilliant Lex to life, but it’s a move that’s becoming more and more costly to Lena w/ every episode. The longer this goes on, the less it’ll be worth it

I can see Mick begrudgingly giving him a small trinket from his plunders as a bare minimum payment. Like everyone else gets a fair share of the loot, but Gary’s just happy to be included

1 Like

Completely agree.

I always just assumed since Gideon could fabricate anything, that included money. But with Nate’s explanation, I guess not.

1 Like

I will discuss the other shows this weekend but here is my weekly summary for my Legendary Island of Misfits: Legends of Tomorrow: Ship Broken (spoilers)

1 Like

For the first time in months I am properly caught up with the Arrowverse. I enjoyed this week’s episodes.
I agree that the amazing job Jon Cryer is doing as Lex is causing problems for Lena. I’m hoping she will have a twist of her own at the end of the season. Maybe she knew Lex was controlling her and gave Kara a hint in that book? (Or maybe that’s just a hopeful wish)
Legends was fun as always. I think Sara’s new ability is something she can master if she works with it enough. She has trained to fight without sight and if she can see where her opponent will be before they get there, she could be unstoppable.
Flash has a lot of ground to cover with only one episode left. (I know they got cut short by two) But I’m curious to see where this season will leave off and what will remain to be dealt with next season. I do enjoy Hartley and I hope he hangs around as an ally. Especially, since we can see how well sound and speed work together.
I’m so happy that Mary is part of the team now. I hope Kate’s trust issues don’t destroy that. I am hoping Julia is maybe helping her father/Bruce by getting the journal for them? But I doubt it will be that simple. Kate just needs to have her small team of Luke and Mary that she can trust.


I think this is actually a reason why I wouldn’t want the power to stick. It’d definitely be cool to see Sara utilize in combat for a little while, but it also runs the risk of making her OP and thus making her fight scenes a lot less interesting

I’ve seen some early speculation that she could be working for either Bruce or Safiyah, so this is definitely 1 of many possible ways to introduce him

1 Like

That’s a good point., I didn’t think about it that way. I really just want one (or two) amazing fight scenes with this power in play and then we can go back to regular Sara, who doesn’t need a super power to win her fights.

I am also assuming that Batwoman will never actually get Bruce on screen. This is Kate’s show after all. If Bruce/Batman actually showed I think it would super down-play her. The closest we will most likely get will be Tommy with a face he calls Bruce’s. (Which I am also excited for)
I totally forget about Safiyah, though. That probably makes the most sense.

1 Like

I was thinking the same thing! But then Kara reads a passage from the book later to Alex and nothing happened. :woman_shrugging:t2:


At this point, I don’t see how they can justify not bringing him at some point given all the buildup. If Supergirl can bring in Superman w/out having him overshadow Kara, then I’m sure Batwoman can do the same w/ Bruce whether he also appears as Batman. I definitely don’t want Kate to be overshadowed, but it would be disappointing to build up this mystery of where Bruce has been for the past 3+ years and never actually see him (well, his Earth-Prime version, anyway)

At the risk of sounding like a :clown_face:, there’s always a possibility that there could be something hidden in another part of the book we just didn’t see. Pretty unlikely, but possible

1 Like

I thought that Luke saying that the Joker was dead in the previous episode explained Bruce’s disappearance. He left after he killed the Joker? At least that’s how I understood it, unless my timeline is off.
I would love to see Bruce come back. I’m just not sure how it would work. If Bruce returned they’d have to leave the cave and Wayne Tower. Not to mention, Bruce wouldn’t allow Kate to continue. He doesn’t play well with others, unlike Superman.
They’ve done so much in their first season. And it isn’t even done yet. I’d like to see Kate grow more before dropping Bruce back in Gotham.

1 Like

Haha, you’re fine. I think it’s just because we all have hope that Lenas storyline is actually better than it has been portrayed. It’s not the first time Supergirl has retconned something.


That would explain why he left, but not where he’s been and if he’s even still alive. Those are the questions I’m still curious about, and while I’m fine to have some of it explained by other people, it would feel anticlimactic if none of that info came from Bruce directly

I don’t see how this would be a necessity. Assuming that Bruce left because of his guilt over killing Joker, he may feel unworthy of returning to the Batman mantle, especially considering that he (presumably) hasn’t even donned the cowl in the past 3 years. There are a number of potential reasons why he’d return to Gotham, and the show could easily have him realize the good that Kate’s doing and the way she’s established herself, which would give him reason to not only let her continue, but even support her efforts further. If he does return to being Batman, there’s also no reason why they couldn’t just work together as they do in the comics, even if temporarily

1 Like

Maybe Bruce will appear in the next big crossover.