Arrowverse Couch Club, Week 5: April 21 episodes (Return from hiatus)


It’s been a long month away, but we’re finally back! The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow finally returned after a month-long Arrowverse hiatus, and it’s just so great to have some of our beloved shows back in our lives. While the slate isn’t completely back just yet (Batwoman will return on Sunday, Supergirl the week after that), we’ve still got plenty to discuss with Black Hole making its next move on The Flash and the Legends of Tomorrow going up against one of Charlie’s sisters. Though we’re a little rusty, feel free to jump right back in by answering some of the discussion questions below and/or contributing any other thoughts you had while watching.

The Flash - "So Long and Goodnight"

  • With Ralph and Sue set to start working together again, do you think Sue can be trusted this time around?
  • Between Jesse L. Martin’s back injury last season and Joe going into WITSEC now, the new captain is going to end up missing plenty of time over the course of these two most recent seasons. Do you think this could be an indicator that Joe will end up leaving the show, or is this just another temporary detour in his journey?
  • There’s been talk of how this whole situation could have a negative impact on Barry and Iris’ marriage, but now Barry’s found himself thrown out before Iris even returned. How do you think this development could impact their relationship going forward? Will it be easier for them to reconcile once he realizes that it wasn’t actually Iris who kicked him out, or will this still be too big for them to move past?

Legends of Tomorrow - "Zari, Not Zari"

  • Based on this episode and a recent trailer, it looks like Zari 1.0 is getting ready to make her comeback outside of the totem’s spirit world. Assuming she does, would you prefer she take Zari 2.0’s spot, or would it be best for them to co-exist?
  • This episode saw the loss of another Legend, as Behrad was tragically killed by Atropos (though hopefully not permanently). What was your reaction to this shocking moment?

Lastly, which was your favorite episode from this week?

  • The Flash - “So Long and Goodnight”
  • Legends of Tomorrow - “Zari, Not Zari”

0 voters

1 Like

I know this may just turn out the same, but I’m cautiously optimistic that things will turn out better between Ralph and Sue this time around. The fact is that Ralph has a much better sense of Sue’s game and what she’s really up to, so he’s gonna be a lot more careful in dealing with her. Sue has to know this and be aware that her usual tricks won’t be as effective if she’s planning to double-cross him again. There’s a real connection that they have, and even though it’s taking longer than we probably thought it would, it does seem like Sue’s walls are slowly but surely coming down. The show has already changed up enough about this iconic pairing from the comics, so I’d like to think that even if the path to get there is different, the result will still be something more familiar.

The more I think about it, the more I start to feel like we could be seeing the end of Joe’s time on the show. Whether he’d be killed off or otherwise written off, it could be a way for the writers to further convey just how serious a threat Black Hole is, and going after one of the characters who’s been here from the beginning could prove to be an effective way to do that. Plus next season’s cast is already pretty crowded with Allegra and Chester being bumped up to series regulars, so the producers could be looking to trim down the cast. I certainly don’t want that to happen, especially considering my lack of investment in those two, but I also wouldn’t be too surprised at this point if that’s the route the show decides to take.

At the end of the day, it’ll probably be good for Joe to take some time off to clear his mind and refresh his basic police skills. Seriously, what was he thinking showing that recording to Carver?

Part of me wants to think that Barry and Iris are strong and iconic enough to get through anything, but it’s getting harder and harder to believe that as this situation goes on. While Barry will obviously discover the truth (next week), mirror Iris’ actions, while certainly still going too far, do still hold some truth. It’s understandable that Iris would be upset over not getting to say goodbye to her dad before going into WITSEC, and Barry could very well take that criticism to heart.

But ultimately, the thing that’ll almost certainly hurt their marriage the most is the fact that Barry’s gone this long w/out knowing that’s not actually Iris. For all his talk about Iris being his lightning rod and being able to find her anywhere in the universe, he doesn’t exactly have much of an excuse this time around. While I do think mirror Iris has been pretty convincing portraying the actual Iris, it doesn’t change the fact that this all makes Barry look pretty awful. Maybe Iris will be more forgiving that I’d imagine when she gets out, but for now, I just feel like they’d have to be really creative in finding a believable way for them to move past this. I didn’t think anything could possibly break them up, but this has ultimately had me thinking that that’s a real possibility now.

Even though I still prefer Zari 1.0 and would prefer her if I had to choose, I don’t really want this season’s version to just be wiped away immediately. Zari the social media influencer may have been kind of cringey at first, but the show’s done a really good job w/ fleshing out her character beyond the vapid first impression we got. She’s funny, clever, resourceful and caring, but not necessarily in the same ways as her predecessor. I’ve also got to give a lot of credit to Tala Ashe for being able to play two very different versions of the same character so well that I don’t want to see either go away permanently.

Something Atropos said right before cutting Behrad’s string really stuck out to me: “You don’t belong here.” As sad as this moment was, it actually felt oddly appropriate given the circumstances. The Legends are literally fighting against Fate itself, and Behrad’s very existence in that form was not what fate originally had in store for them. They changed their destiny at Heyworld, and Atropos likely considered killing Behrad a merciful act that was helping to set the world closer to how it’s supposed to be. It’s a very literal manifestation of their battle against Fate, and while it was certainly hard to watch, it did make sense in the grand scheme of the season. And by (hopefully) bringing Behrad back using the Loom, the Legends will further cement their argument that they create their own destinies.

I’ll be back this weekend to add my comments on Flash and Legends, but here is my return to Legends summaries:

1 Like

We’re back! Yay! On to the q’s!

She’s slippery. So, honestly, I’m not sure. They know a little more about each other now, so maybe. But since she’s his wife in the comics, I want to be able to trust her. Plus, she’s a fun character so I would enjoy having her around more.

Your guess is as good as mine. I’ve thought Cisco was leaving the show at least 4 times by now. But if Joe leaves does that mean we lose Cecile too? Because that would be a sad day in central city.

I honestly think their marriage will be fine. They’ve been through worse. Obviously, Barry wouldn’t feel so bad about himself once he realizes it’s not really Iris. Iris might be a little mad when she finds out how long Barry took to realize lol. They really should come up with some type of code word or something because of how often this happens.

I love the acting by Tala Ashe so I would definitely want them to co-exist. That might be hard to sustain indefinitely though…So maybe by the end of the season we get Zari 1.0 back and Zari 2.0 goes back to her family?

1 Like

I totally forgot about this so thanks for making me excited about it all over again. I am definitely a fan of Chester P. Funk.

Right? I was thinking that I don’t know any emp that is that specific. Wouldn’t it be easier to just have joe searched or scramble all audio recordings? I can only suspend my disbelief so far.

Agreed. I even said Iris found out he was “infected” like 2.5 seconds in. Now even when Joe and Wally both mention something Barry still thinks nothing of it. Crazy.

1 Like

Regardless of where her true allegiances end up lying, I think we can all agree that she does add a lot to the show just by being there

Possibly, though she’s still got her metahuman attorney job going, so she could definitely still operate and help Team Flash even w/out him. I’d imagine her leaving would be more of a possibility if Joe’s written off as opposed to killed off

I don’t know, I actually think that he’d feel worse about it for not realizing sooner. I can absolutely see him blaming himself and thinking that he above anyone else should’ve known from the start that that wasn’t actually Iris. Regardless of how it plays out, they’ve clearly got a lot they’re gonna have to work through

This is a good idea until you realize that mirror Iris has all of real Iris’ memories. Kamila’s camera test seemed to work pretty well, though

Yeah, having one actor pulling double duty like that wouldn’t be easy to do long-term from a logistical standpoint. I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of the two Zaris playing off of each other, but it’ll likely have to come down to just 1 Zari by the end of the season

The only explanation I can think of for why Joe would do that is that maybe he really wanted to see the look on Carver’s face when he “knew” he was busted. But even w/out knowing of the EMP, Joe should’ve realized that Carver’s security guards could’ve also easily taken the recording before he left. Stupid, stupid, stupid…

Yea if he just moves I’m sure Cecile would go with him.

Very true, but I meant mentally when he finds out she’s not the real Iris he will probably be saying to himself “oh, so her yelling at me and kicking me out isn’t what she really thinks.”

The one time she’s been useful, then she gets wammied!

Exactly!! Haha

1 Like

I could see him reacting w/ an initial sense of relief followed by instant dread when he realizes what this means

1 Like

I love Sue’s character, so I definitely hope so, but then again… that handoff of the diamond seemed a little fishy to me. Why did she just have it ready, underneath her coat? Is it just a plot hole? Or, like the other appearance we’ve seen of Sue, is she playing Ralph? She’s definitely capable of using emotional plays to drag Ralph in, as well as letting Ralph think he knows what’s going on. A part of me wishes that they put this off for another episode so this subplot could be given more room to breathe, but the other part of me thinks that we’ve been waiting too long anyways.

Fingers crossed it won’t happen, I love Joe. However, I do think it’s a possibility. Not much to say for this, but maybe with a larger cast, they’ll just give certain characters/actors a break for several episodes then have them come back, like they did with Cisco.

Realistically, yes, they’d have issues they’d need to work through, but this is a TV superhero drama we’re talking about. There’s just as much chance they milk this for all it’s worth as barely addressing it and just going, “Love conquers all.” I think they’re leaning towards the latter, purely because it seems Iris has faith in her husband while in the mirror world. I feel like if they were gonna have her be upset he didn’t realize, they would have started doing it already. If they did end up having her be mad at Barry, it would honestly feel kind fo cheap (unless they pulled it off right! I think they could, but it would be a certain set of circumstances where it could work). Barry, on the other hand, is another story. He has a tendency to blame himself for everything, and he’s probably going to wallow in his angst for a little bit.


I initially thought that maybe she was gonna use it as collateral for investing or something, but then I remembered that banks won’t just accept a big diamond as a down payment. Maybe she thinks keeping it on her person is keeping it safe? I’m definitely a little more suspicious of that now

I suppose having even more of a revolving cast could be in the show’s future. It’d be one way to manage a growing group of regulars, though I still maintain that it would just be better to not keep growing the main cast and just develop the characters you have even more

True, though I also figured that Iris is probably too focused on getting out to let herself be upset at Barry right now. She’d have to know that being mad at him won’t do her any good, and that it’s something she can save for when she gets out. I definitely agree that this is gonna be really hard on Barry. I initially thought that Iris would be the one that’d suffer more from this whole situation, but now I’m starting to think that it might end up being him

I thought the same thing. I was like she just had that in her pocket the whole time? Did she plan to give it to him?

I forgot to mention in my original post, but how has Iris not figured out Eva is playing her yet? She’s been shown to be a good journalist and to me, at least, it seems like Iris has come up with most of the ideas for how to get out of the mirror. You could say that Eva has been planning this for a while, but if the plan is to get Iris to trust her so she can get the flash to get them out of the mirror how did Eva even know Iris would find the mirror? Has she had Mirror-doubles out in the world for years? Or am I just forgetting some details?

1 Like

I suppose it’s possible. After all, we don’t actually know how long mirror Singh has been out there, so maybe Eva’s been putting things in motion for a lot longer than just the past few months. I just hope we eventually find out the full scope of her plan, even w/ the season ending prematurely

1 Like

I REALLY didn’t want Singh to be the mole because I’ve always loved his character. So at least with him being a “mirror” it wasn’t his fault.

1 Like

But he wasn’t the mole, right? Mirror Singh is reporting to Eva, so I figure that’s gotta mean someone else in the force is reporting to Carver

1 Like

Yea, exactly. I’m just happy it’s not Singh.

1 Like

Also, how many people can you fit in a mirror? Lol

1 Like

It looks like Eva’s got an entire world in there, so I’d imagine a lot. I still think Kamila and Singh have gotta be trapped in different parts of that world

how did Sara survive the god light?

The names of the Fates are the Greek versions i believe. I wonder if there were any tells when we first met Lachesis (hopefully i am spelling that right).

I was not pleased when they killed Behrad. But the “you do not belong here” line did stick out.

totem Zari and influencer Zari should meld. And unsnooze Gideon.

Somehow the two rings together thwarted the hell-sword (hell-scimitar?).

Flash: I am looking forward to Cisco naming Eva. Barry and Iris will survive i suspect. I am hoping the barry and real iris moment is not unlike “if that’s really you, then who have i been living with?”

I really want to see things from real Singh’s perspective. because he or Cisco’s girlfriend (flaking hard on her name) finding each other and/or real iris should be interesting. How many other mirror replicants are there?

Ralph and Sue can be more of a slow burn. it’s cat and mouse, literally as well as metaphorically. I like her action suit.

1 Like

I’m sure we’ll get an official explanation soon enough when they start dealing w/ her magical illness that gives her superpowers. My best guess right now is that maybe it has something to do w/ her multiple deaths and resurrections in different timelines

I’ve been focused on Zari 1.0 vs. 2.0 that I hadn’t considered something like this. Maybe by the end of the season, we could get Zari 3.0?

I’m especially curious to see how long Singh’s been trapped in the mirror world. Just watch Eva have an entire mirror army at her disposal w/out anyone even knowing


1 Like