Arrowverse Couch Club, Week 10: Legends of Tomorrow S5, E13

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SPOILER ALERT!

This is the one where Legends of Tomorrow airs its penultimate episode of the season. Before taking on the Fates in a battle for humanity’s destiny, the Legends had to escape the world of parody TV as we got the show’s interesting takes on Friends, Downton Abbey and Star Trek. Though this episode was packed with plenty of typical Legends hilarity, there was also a ton of heartfelt emotion to go around, along with the return of Mona Wu and Zari 1.0!

Since we’ve only got one episode to discuss this week, @ImpulseMaxMercury and I have also combined forces as the Arrowverse starts to close the door on 2020. Along with my usual discussion questions, you’ll also find the weekly Legendary Island of Misfits list of observations. It’s maximum Legends to close out the season!

Legends of Tomorrow – “The One Where We’re Trapped on TV”

  • Now that Zaris 1.0 and 2.0 have been separated into two different people, do you see them staying like this indefinitely, or do you think this will just be a temporary change?
  • With Constantine initially willing to stay in the TV world to maintain Astra’s happiness, how do you see this decision affecting their relationship going forward?
  • Aside from the ones they did, what other show would you most want to see the Legends parody?

Take it away, @ImpulseMaxMercury:

“The One Where We’re Trapped on TV”

Welcome back my Legendary Island of Misfits! This one was so jam-packed with pop culture goodies that I had a hard time narrowing my list down. Here’s my attempt!

  1. I like that they have Mona, the new Rebecca Silver, be a writer for the Historical Sanitation Department. I enjoyed the return of her character this week.
  2. I like that the Fates thought of Mona and Gary as such low-level threats that they didn’t trap them like the other Legends, but they were ultimately the ones to try to save the day. Once a Legend, always a Legend.
  3. I know some of us working wish that our bosses would give us a mandatory recreation period.
  4. Anyone else get a Hunger Games or 1984 feel with the way the Fates are always watching and trying to get everyone to relinquish free will?
  5. Even the opening changed to look like wartime propaganda for the Fates.
  6. Speaking of 1984, anyone think of the slop on Big Brother for the mush?
  7. What is the subscription rate for Fate+?
  8. Behrad: “I’m back!” Yes you are, in more ways than one.
  9. Did they get the old Friends apartment for Ultimate Buds? Does this make Nate Joey since he’s an actor?
  10. Nate tried out for the part of a vigilante like Robin of Locksley in Starling City. Mmmm, sounds dumb. Love it! Kick a show while it’s no longer around.
  11. Enjoyed having an episode with Zari 1.0 in most of it, although Zari 2.0 has been growing on me.
  12. I teared up at the reunion of Zari 1.0 and Behrad.
  13. “Did you eat like an entire Behrad brownie?” Hmmm…
  14. The door they never thought to go through…was it the same one Monica hid all her junk in so she could appear neat?
  15. John cleaned up nice for Highcastle Abbey.
  16. The way they found each other and traveled from show to show reminded me of the movie Stay Tuned with John Ritter and Pam Dawber. Great movie!
  17. It’s good to see that Astra got her mom back until we find out that it’s not really her mom, just a character on the show. Fate would not be so kind.
  18. Fancy mush is blue mush. Good to know.
  19. John Constantine, self-proclaimed nasty piece of work, is a butler.
  20. Love that Behrad convinces Astra to leave because she is a diva!
  21. Heck, even the credits showing that it was a Clotho production evokes retro TV.
  22. “Wouldn’t it more logical to attack the warship before it attacks us?”
    “By that logic we would attack every ship we encountered.”
  23. In the Fatal Frontier on the USS Faterider to find disobedient life forms and blow them up with lasers.
  24. The effects seem to fit right in with Legends.
  25. Anyone else notice the original Star Trek was on a five-year mission and this year is the fifth season of Legends?
  26. I know this is parodying the original series, but the Borg would fit in perfectly with their “Resistance is futile” quote.
  27. Caity out-Shatnered the original.
  28. “There’s no need to vocalize at that decibel. They’re androids.” Yes, but androids in bicycle shorts (supposed to be reflective of the miniskirts worn in original show?)
  29. Love the dynamic of two captains…co-captains for life
  30. “Lady adventurers in pantaloons.” Love how they didn’t make her arrogant but rather full of innocent wonder.
  31. Judging by their appearance, we are in a late and early 20th-century prison dimension.
  32. Welcome back to Mr. Parker’s Cul-De-Sac!
  33. I like that they think a sewer worker is bada$$.
  34. “Could there be such a profession as a firewoman?”
  35. “We are on public access. This is a career-killer!”
  36. Zari’s wisdom: “ You guys were heroes. But it’s not because you do magic or because you have superpowers. What makes you guys special, what makes us special, is that we’re just a bunch of misfits who are trying to make a difference.”
  37. “I remember our time with Behrad. I remember…both Zaris.”
  38. John would feel violated by being a butler.
  39. I like that Behrad asks, “Where’s my Zari?” Then John says, “You took the words out of my mouth, mate.” He does care for Z2
  40. I just pulled the plug on this crossover.
  41. I didn’t know there was another musical episode.
  42. “Mother fater!” I am going to use this from now on.
  43. Didn’t someone else snap their fingers to accomplish something?
  44. John’s original sin was giving away an innocent like Astra to bring back her mom.
  45. “If you’re happy here, then I will spend an eternity as ruddy Mr. Constantine, trying to make it up to you and Natalie.” Don’t get soft on me.
  46. Now we know Charlie’s plan was to let them live, but not really: “The Legends…they’re my friends. But my sisters wanted them dead, so I made a deal: Weave the Legends into our streaming service, where they help indoctrinate the masses, and…they could live.”
  47. Gary: “I always thought of you as punk rock Fate”. In another lifetime, Gary.
  48. You know I just realized that Mick is missing!
  49. Ava to Sara: “Out there we lost, but in here…we always win.”
  50. Sara to Ava: “Life is beautiful and terrible all at the same time. But if we’re only living part of it, then we’re not living at all.”
  51. Wrath of Dhan! Finally Mick! Gotta love the hair flip!
  52. Lita’s mom says he’s kinda hot.
  53. “What if the only way to get Charlie to set us free is…we have to lose.” Sounds like a Legends plan to me.
  54. When their shows were canceled, was that backstage for the Legends show?
  55. OK, now I am getting Truman Show vibes when everyone is watching the Legends on TV before they get canceled.
  56. Nice to see that Ultimate Buds is taped in front of a live studio audience.
  57. “Those imbeciles can’t do this. They’ll inspire an insurrection.” You don’t really know the Legends, do you?
  58. Nate: “I happen to like mush, but that’s not the point!”
  59. Ava: “It’s like a Zari clone. Totally get it.”
  60. I like the two Zaris going into the final episode. Makes sense to split her thread in two.
  61. Behrad: “You can’t bribe us into taking the blue pill.” Matrix reference!
  62. Mick wants out because Lita is still out there. Dad of the year!
  63. I was also reminded of the Supernatural episode where they were trapped in television shows such as Grey’s Anatomy where everyone repeated the word “Fine.” Hilarious!
  64. I cannot wait to see how they beat Fate in next week’s finale! Until next time, stay Legendary!
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As much as I’d like to see it, I can’t imagine both Zaris staying separate like this, as it’ll either be way too much work for Tala Ashe, even if they have each Zari on a separate part of an episode’s mission, or they’ll have to constantly explain why one Zari isn’t present. What I do think could possibly work is that the personalities/souls of both Zaris could, after the finale, end up sharing a single body ala Killer Frost. This way, season 6 and beyond could give us alternating Zaris w/out having to drastically increase Tala’s screentime (not that I wouldn’t want to see more of her). It’d certainly be an odd situation seeing as Nate and Constantine would essentially have to “share” her, but it could still be a best of both worlds situation while also presenting some interesting challenges for the show’s future.

Even though it wasn’t given a ton of attention, this part of the episode really stuck w/ me. As far as we can tell, John was being completely serious w/ his commitment to staying in the show for Astra’s sake. He might’ve been hoping that his decision would help her see that they needed to leave and fight back, but I still got the sense that he was prepared to stay if that’s really what it took to make her happy. Just think about that for a bit.

They’re already in a TV world where personal drama is the most dangerous thing they’re going to encounter, so it’s safe to say their lives were safer there than in the real world. Additionally, if the Fates had their way, the show likely would’ve stayed on forever so as to continue keeping the masses placated and doing their will. John might not have known for sure if that was going to be exactly the case (the algorithm could’ve always decided to write his character off), but he had to have known that there was a very real chance he’d be playing that part forever, or at least long enough where it’d seem that way. Not only would it be a huge commitment to faking something for that long, but in a role that he showed his obvious disgust for earlier. All of this really underscores how significant a decision it was for him to accept staying there.

Granted, John’s probably long accepted the fact that he’ll almost certainly spend eternity in Hell when he finally dies, so for him, this probably wouldn’t be far off and would even be better in many ways. But it’s still a form of eternal torture, and one that he was willing to endure all for Astra. She didn’t really have much time to respond at the end of the episode, but my hope is that Astra, assuming she survives the finale and sticks around, will realize that John was essentially sacrificing his life so for Astra’s happiness. If she can better see the lengths he’s willing to go to make up for what he considers his greatest mistake, then hopefully this can lead to a true reconciliation for them going forward.

It might’ve been a little too much to ask, but I would’ve killed to see a full parody of Arrow similar to what they did here. Maybe the CW wouldn’t allow them to go quite that far, but if any show could pull it off, it’d be Legends. They’ve already been teetering on the edge of something like that w/ not only the joke at the beginning of the episode but also having some the Legends dress up as the Trinity at the end of last season, so I feel like they’ve been irreverent enough where they might actually be able to get away w/ it. Considering how involved Marc Guggenheim still is w/ the show, I’d be confident that an Arrow parody would be able to respectfully poke more fun at this universe, which Legends definitely excels at doing.

I was thinking a lot about how it was kind of strange that Charlie didn’t seem to have any faith that the Legends could possibly defeat her sisters. While she does know more than anyone how dangerous they are, I also can’t help but wonder if she did all of this to give them something greater to rally behind. She has to know how defiant the Legends are in the face of being told they can’t do something, especially since she’s had that same mindset for a while, so maybe she felt that this whole thing could give them the extra push they’d need to take down the other Fates. If she was sincere in her desire to keep them down, however, this lack of faith in them could be something that carries over into season 6 and could fracture Charlie’s relationship w/ the rest of the Legends, assuming she makes it out of the finale, of course

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I loved this episode it made me cry and laugh

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it will be interesting to see which Zari will remain. I kind of like the combined style. not unlike how the Council of Wells is inside Nash.

Constantine is willing to do a lot to save Astra. The only thing that will make things worse is failing to save Astra’s mom.

other shows to parody: family feud

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That would be amazing! Not sure how the Legends would split up, but seeing each team bicker and get overly competitive would be fantastic. Maybe Rip could even come back to be the host

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they wouldn’t have to. they would be versus whatever big bad that season is fighting. i would allow a mind control to pit Legend vs Legend. or in this case, the fates would probably use previous villains (or any really) to be the opposite family.

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Oooh if they could either do Family Feud against the Legion of Doom or hey what about the Legends that have left the show?

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I would be down for either.

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I think they will find a way to combine them. That would be too much for the actress (whose name I just forgot) As fun as it would be storywise, I don’t see them staying two separate people for very long. Though, I am curious as to who will get the totem? Her or Behrad?

I think Astra is a little more open to John and the Legends now. Especially, after the Fates just killed her and seemed unwilling to save her Mother. I’d be open to her hanging around a while. Though, if they do save her Mother, how will her character change?

Family Feud was a good answer. I would have loved a little parody of the other Arrowverse shows. But I’m not sure what else they could have done, though.

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I won’t two Zaris’ on the show for as long as it runs.

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So like we’d get a Zari who has elements of both in one person? Like a Zari 3.0?

That might be something they’ll have to share, which would definitely be easier to pull off than having both Zaris stay on w/ the Legends

I’m sure she’d learn to be friendlier again, though I also wouldn’t want her to completely lose her edge. I’m more curious as to how she’d be able to help the Legends in their fights. I don’t remember her showing off any hand-to-hand skills and it doesn’t seem like she has any powers. Magic would be my best guess as to what she could provide in a fight, as she could’ve learned the dark arts during her time in Hell and learn more under Constantine. If Gary of all people can become a sorcerer, then I’d assume anyone can, especially Astra

If that does happen, they’ll need to give Tala Ashe a pretty big raise, though she certainly already deserves one after her work this season

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Either Zari 3.0 or maybe, like someone mentioned earlier, a council of Wells scenario. Or even a Frost/Caitlyn type thing? I’m not sure how those would work. But I hate the idea of having to scratch one of these two great characters that Tala has brought to life. We already sidelined 1.0 for most of a season. I would hate to have to do that to her again.

Astra has definitely grown on me these last couple episodes. But if we rewrite that her mother ever died, would she have ever found the Legends? I guess is a better way to phrase my question. She would have to be a totally different person, right? I mean, not growing up in Hell would make a person different, for sure. I agree though, on the magic side, if Gary can do so can Astra.

Also, a side note, I have a bit of an issue with the idea of taking the loom to fix John’s worse mistake. What does John or anyone learn from that? If they save Astra’s mother from ever dying, Astra doesn’t get sent to Hell and everyone lives a happy life? That would rewrite John’s time line right? He doesn’t spend years trying to figure out how to save Astra (and fail at it)
Maybe, bringing Astra’s mother to the present? Keeping history in place but still saving the life? I don’t know, I’m just rambling about this part now.

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Already ahead of you there :grin:

This is an interesting possibility to think of since they already rewrote Zari and Behrad’s history, so it could happen again w/ Astra. If the finale does present a new reality where Astra was never banished to Hell, maybe we could be dealing w/ a timeline where she became a full-fledged sorcerer studying under Constantine. It’d be pretty badass to see them as partners after everything they’ve been through, though I also do enjoy the compelling drama of their current dynamic and would miss them continuing to work through that. But then again, that kind of scenario could be a really effective way to make up for everything and move on properly

I feel like John has already learned his lesson many times over from that mistake, so I don’t think it’d be too much to use the Loom to fix things at this point. It’s not like he was presented w/ an easy way out immediately after it happened. But then you do have to consider the difference between rewriting time again and just making a change in the present. Even though Astra was resistant to bring her mother back after seeing how she’d lose her, I’d also hope that this whole experience has shown her that it could still be worth it to bring her back and make up for all the time they lost. Even if it’d still end in tragedy, Astra has to know at this point that the years she’d be able to spend w/ her mother again would ultimately make bringing her back worth it in the end

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I thought I read that somewhere, just couldn’t remember where, :slight_smile:

Wasn’t her Mother a sorcerer too? I thought that’s why her father wanted to use magic to bring her back. Or am I making things up again?

I guess? I just feel like if they do erase that this ever happened, John will have just done it to someone else, instead of Astra.
I don’t know. I just don’t want to see John deciding to do something dumb and risky again just because he always finds a way to magically make it like it never happened.
But I do hope Astra has learned enough to make a good decision in terms of her mother. Gary didn’t have to try very hard to convince her otherwise, so I think she will still save her. I’m just concerned about the timeline. But it wouldn’t be Legends if I wasn’t, I guess. :stuck_out_tongue:

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No, I just completely forgot that she was. In that case, having multiple sorcerers in her life could be even more helpful if she went down that path

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I hope both Zari’s stay :smiley:

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Finally caught up!

  • I think we’ll continue to see both Zari from time to time
  • She’ll trust him more moving forward
  • I want them to parody a game show

Same!

I was happy to see it again!

this was so perfect for Mick and a welcome surprise.

I’ll never tire of Matrix references

I’ll never forget seeing Sara and Ava in Star Trek uniforms! The Star Trek parody was my favorite part of the show.

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I am pushing Family Feud like a drug dealer down on his luck