Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 6: Superman & Lois Series Premiere


This week, a new chapter of the Arrowverse began with the debut of the new series Superman & Lois! The iconic couple returns in a way we’ve never seen before in live action, as the complexities of parenthood challenge Clark and Lois in ways that saving the world never has. Not to be overshadowed, we also got new episodes of Batwoman and Black Lightning and Batwoman, as Ryan attempted to track down a painting that could help find Kate and the Pierces have to battle against shifting perceptions of them, both at home and in the larger Freeland community.

Batwoman – Gore on Canvas

  • Is there any chance that the Crows could be dismantled like Ryan is hoping for? If they do stick around, will Sophie be part of the organization for much longer?

Black Lightning – “The Book of Reconstruction: Chapter Three”

  • Could Tobias actually be telling the truth when he says he wants to cure ALS, or is this just a complete ruse to advance his plan of seizing power?

Superman & Lois – Pilot

  • With Jordan confirmed to have at least some of his dad’s powers, it’s unknown whether or not Jonathan will also inherit any. Would you prefer to see him get powers like Jordan, or do you think he should stay powerless?
  • While the ending strongly implied that the armored stranger is Lex Luthor from another earth, post-Crisis rules have indicated that doppelgängers can’t occupy the same space in reality for long before one or both of them dies. Given that the Lex we know was still alive last we saw him, could this reveal not actually be that straightforward?
  • Though an actual crossover is unlikely anytime soon due to filming restrictions, the pilot didn’t even make any reference to Supergirl. Do you feel that the show should make greater efforts to at least mention Kara going forward similar to how Supergirl has done both before and after Superman was introduced?
Lastly, what episode was your favorite?
  • Batwoman – Gore on Canvas
  • Black Lightning – “The Book of Resurrection: Chapter Three”
  • Superman & Lois – Pilot

0 voters

While I certainly don’t wanna rule out any drastic changes like that in the long term, I’d be very surprised if the Crows went away by the end of the season. Having an organization like this around is a natural vessel for creating further conflict beyond just the usual villains, and while getting rid of it could provide for a dramatic story shift, I get the sense that it’d take even longer to build up to something like that. Sophie might be conflicted about her future w/ the Crows, but Jacob and plenty of other people who work for him wouldn’t go down w/out a hell of a fight

But as for Sophie specifically, I do think the possibility of her leaving the Crows is a lot more likely. While I doubt that she’ll ever stop believing in the mission and what they’re supposed to stand for, I do get the sense that her loyalty to the organization is gradually wavering ever so slightly w/ every passing episode. I could very much see it get to the point where she discovers enough about the horrible things agents have done in both the distant and recent past that she becomes disillusioned enough w/ them to where she’d want to leave. Plus, w/ the show clearly dedicated to mirroring real-life elements of the intense backlash against police brutality, a move like this could be a truly meaningful way to work that into the story beyond just a single episode

I actually feel that it’s both. Like many great villains, Tobias is definitely the kind of manipulator who’s more than willing to do acts of legitimate good, but all in a way that also furthers his own agenda. It’s like how Lex Luthor, for example, will gladly help save the world from an alien threat, but when people aren’t looking, he’ll also take advantage of the situation to do something that will help him and hurt the heroes after the battle is over. I believe that Tobias is doing something similar here. We know that he legitimately loved his sister, and I’m sure he still very much wants to find a cure to honor her memory. But Lynn would certainly be naïve in thinking that’s all he wants to accomplish. I’m sure she’ll verify as best she can that Tobias’ efforts are legitimate as far as the ALS goes, but I’m hoping that she’ll still be able to see beyond all of that and also talk to her family about this instead of just keeping it to herself

I also have to wonder now about the timing of that. It seems like perhaps too much of a coincidence that soon after coming to the realization that she’s been trying to fit in where she doesn’t necessarily belong, Lynn gets an offer like this which specifically preys on that vulnerability. If I can break out the tin foil hat for a minute here, I think there’s an actual chance that her and Jeff’s therapist could be working for Tobias. As awful as it’d be, having direct access to some of their most intimate and vulnerable thoughts like that would actually be an invaluable resource for preying on their emotional weaknesses and better manipulating them. Granted, Tobias is also great at that skill in general, so it’s still entirely possible that he determined Lynn’s imposter syndrome on his own. But I honestly wouldn’t be that surprised to see a reveal like that, though I’m also desperately hoping it doesn’t happen

Though I don’t think it’d actually make a ton of sense to have a completely powerless half-Kryptonian, I think it would also be more interesting to see the dynamic play out where the two brothers have this major difference between them (among the other ones, that is). Because giving Jonathan powers as well would probably be the expected route, this move could force the writers to be a little more creative in how they approach the character not just over the course of this season, but for the show’s entire run. Not that powers are all you need to be an interesting character, far from it, but in giving the two of them even more differences, I think it’d actually be more satisfying to see them overcome those and form a unique bond regardless. And while I certainly don’t want to see parents playing favorites between their kids, it could also give Jonathan something more to bond w/ Lois over, similar to how Jordan will surely get to bond more w/ Clark over their shared abilities. I’m sure I’d eventually want to see an episode where Jonathan gains Jordan’s powers or he just gets temporary powers separately, but keeping him powerless in the long-term could be an even better reminder that not everyone needs them to be super

I’m certainly inclined to think as much. Given the circumstances, I’m thinking that this Luthor is actually one of Lex’s descendants, whether as close as a son or as far as someone who existed hundreds of years after him. I definitely like the idea of a world where Superman and Lex’s rivalry sparked a centuries-long conflict, and this Luthor is the latest in a long line of them dedicated to wiping out Superman’s family. Perhaps after being stranded on this earth post-Crisis, he found out all about Superman and Lex’s history while in hiding. When he realized that he came to a point in time where their rivalry was just beginning, perhaps he then dedicated himself to wiping out the original Kryptonian and presumably stop the same sort of everlasting conflict from happening here. I’m sure that’s too specific to actually be right, but it just goes to show how fun the speculation can be when a show is just starting out like this

But then again, we also have to acknowledge that this might just end up being a continuity error. True, Crisis can explain why Sam Lane and Morgan Edge look different, but we also saw post-Crisis Superman use his still-blue heat vision while fighting the Anti-Monitor, and now it’s back to its traditional red. Unless they offer some sort of specific explanation for that change (I did see an interesting theory that it could actually be a result of him getting shrunk), it’ll just end up being a direct continuity error, which would have to make you wonder how many other slip-ups could happen

Absolutely. While it’s been a while since I’ve watched Supergirl’s first season, I definitely remember plenty of instances where Kara or someone else mentioned Superman despite the fact that they weren’t actually able to bring him in until the second season. While I of course understand that Superman came first, both in terms of general history and the Arrowverse timeline, Kara was still the first to get a show and it was from that show that this version of Clark was introduced to us. This time, Superman really does owe a debt of gratitude to Supergirl, and I hope the writers don’t forget that over the course of the season

Additionally, not including Kara in any capacity will also raise some legitimate story questions. The main one from this episode is where was she during Martha’s funeral? Again, I get that Melissa Benoist (or Mehcad Brooks, for that matter – James is still Superman’s Best Pal, right?) couldn’t actually be there to film a cameo for that scene, but there still could’ve been something written into that sequence. Maybe Clark could’ve said that Kara couldn’t stay long or that she wanted to come but was in the middle of an emergency. All it would’ve taken is a single line to explain why we didn’t actually see her, and it’s honestly a little concerning that the writers didn’t even think to include something like that. To the viewers, Supergirl has a much more established legacy in the Arrowverse, and acting like she’s not even there would undoubtedly be the wrong move

I personally want Jonathan to have powers as well, mostly because it seems unlikely to me that only one twin would have it.

My first thought was that he was from the future with the advanced technology he seemed to have and because they couldn’t have multiple lexes. But, that could be the reason he’s in the special suit, he’s trying to save his life. Why he is going after Superman while he’s dying, I’m not sure.

Where is Aunt Kara?! I kept waiting for a reference, but there was none. When will Kara come in to provide some advice?

I want to see her so badly being a part of their family, but with Supergirl ending, I don’t know what we can expect from her involvement.

I really loved the vibe of the show and the family focus. I’m excited to see the next episode and get a better understanding of where the show is ending, and what the world is post-crisis.

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I’ll be back to reply more but I did want to say poor Pa Kent! All I know is if you are cast as Pa Kent or Uncle Ben in a show or movie, you have limited screen time, providing words of advice before dying. Even when he escapes it initially like on Smallville, Clark has to turn back time and he dies.

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That’s a pretty interesting theory. Like maybe there’s something about the suit and the facility he’s in that protects him from otherwise dying due to not being the only Lex. Although I feel like he’d have to have already come over w/ all that tech intact, otherwise he probably wouldn’t have had enough time to build it himself before both he and Earth-Prime Lex died

The odd thing about this whole situation is that we probably won’t actually see her on the show until after SG ends. Assuming S&L gets a 2nd season, even if there are still filming restrictions going on, Melissa wouldn’t have to worry about being involved w/ 2 separate filming crews. By that time, the SG crew wouldn’t be around anymore, and she’d be able to just be on the S&L set for a guest appearance or 2

The fact that this is the 1st show to start from the very beginning at a post-Crisis point leaves plenty of possibility for it to be even more influential on the Arrowverse going forward. Like it can really be the place that further establishes what the changes are on Earth-Prime, though it was definitely frustrating to not really see any direct connections to that or any pre-established material right out of the gate

I do not, nor would I want the Crows to be dismantled. They seem to ingrained in Gotham at this point and as was mentioned by someone else in this thread, they provide an opportunity for more conflict than just the villain of the week. I could see Sophie staying with them only to be able to provide intel to Team FemBat sorta like Gordon would go to Batman for help but the rest of the police force may not trust Batman.

I did enjoy the feel of a heist caper to try to boost the painting, only to find out it was a counterfeit and Ocean already had the original. Makes you wonder when the swap was made.

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I trust nothing that comes out of his mouth. My feeling is that he is trying to appeal to Dr Stewart’s need to help others in order to help him for his own agenda. I am not sure if he now knows someone with ALS, but maybe there is something close to it that her research will end up helping with.

I did like the mixup in who sent the flowers, it was almost like an 80s rom-com mixup storyline. She thought they were from Jeff, Jeff thought they were from her, and Tobias was in the middle of this weird not quite love triangle.

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I like the idea of only one having powers and it not being the golden child. It gives him something extra to build confidence on and part of me gets Peter Parker vibes with Jordan having the powers over the brother who excelled at everything. I did like how Jonathan liked that he earned his football spot honestly. However, he will have to give it away if they move to Smallville right?

The issue of dopplegangers is not held consistently cross the Arrowverse. On Batwoman we had the Alice/Beth ones get sick, but on Supergirl they could have dopplegangers occur without issue. Then, don’t get me started with Flash, where they have so many dopplegangers but not seeming to be as many issues. I do like the idea of a suit to protect the Luthor from the effects, but we will have to see.

I think it will help to grow on its own without Supergirl. I never thought I would say Superman would have to stand on its own without Supergirl but here we are. The COVID restrictions may also make it more difficult than a passing message.

I love the montage at the start to through the highlights of the origin, meet cute with Lois, getting engaged and married and having kids. It hit all the right nostalgic notes. I love the use of the Fleischer costume as his first one and the homage to Action Comics 1. Although I still stand by the fact that they had to hurt me again by killing Pa Kent once again, they had to hurt me twice with Ma Kent now too. I love that she used her farm’s mortgage to pay for anyone who needed help in town to the point that she was their Superhero. That really fit her character.

Finally separate note: Did you see that John Wesley Shipp is returning to the role of Jay Garrick of Earth-2 for flashbacks of the Justice Society in the Stargirl series? Very cool.

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Oh I’m sure Ocean has had that map for quite a while. I wouldn’t be surprised if the real painting was never actually on the black market, and that he’s had the original for years

But instead of wacky hijinks, we’ve got psychological trauma and sinister manipulation

Unless Metropolis and Smallville are much closer in the Arrowverse than they usually are, then I’d have to think so. Granted, going to the Smallville high school football team could give him even more of a chance to shine since there’d presumably be even less competition, but also less attention on the school/program. It could be a humbling experience for him, and also provide some extra drama if he ends up having at least 1 game against Metropolis

W/ Supergirl, I feel like Brainy’s doppelgängers were absorbed and Winn’s evil doppelgänger died before any of them would’ve started feeling side effects, and w/ Al, it’s possible that we just saw them before those things started happening anyway. As for Flash, I can’t remember any post-Crisis doppelgängers showing up, though that’s not to say there haven’t been other potential inconsistencies, like how Cisco still has a recording from Harry on Earth-2 despite the fact that the Earth-2 they knew doesn’t exist now. Maybe at some point in the past during the post-Crisis timeline, the multiverse did exist to everyone but it just doesn’t anymore? It’s all pretty complicated, but it’s also possible to make things more streamlined and consistent if the right amount of care and effort is put into it by everyone working on these shows together

Just like how Supergirl shouldn’t be completely reliant on Superman to forge her legacy, I definitely agree that the reverse shouldn’t be true for Superman. But at the same time, the Arrowverse has also stated how in a lot of ways, Supergirl is an even more powerful hero than Superman in this universe, so I also wouldn’t want her to be completely ignored and at least be referenced from time to time before Melissa can appear on the show properly

That was such a great scene and a very welcome surprise! It was peak boy scout and felt perfect for the character

As soon as she started coughing I just thought, “Oh she’s done”

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Batwoman: Is there a Wolf Spider anywhere in the book universe?

Black Lightning: Tobias is only telling the truth if his sister really did have ALS. I don’t remember if it was mentioned before. What would really make it is if it were true because the move is also part of his campaign to destroy Jefferson. He is a magnificent villain.

Superman & Lois: I like that they are touching on something that is part of Superman lore, but isn’t usually touched on: family. And I like that it is Clark’s family he is starting vs young Clark being raised by Martha and Jonathon (Johnathan?).

The twins are both half Kryptonian, so they both should manifest something. That they are fraternal means I would not be surprised if one has powers and one does not. It would be very “of mythology” if that were the case. I was actually expecting both to have abilities and the trope of one being good and the other turning evil to be seen down the line.

I thought I heard the adversary being referred to as Captain Zod.