Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 5: Feb. 14-15 Episodes


It only took us about a month into the new seasons, but for the first time since May, we’ve finally got a week with more than one episode! This week in Gotham, a new villain turned out to be pretty familiar to Ryan, who had to relive a traumatic time in her childhood while searching for a missing teenager. Down in Freeland, Jefferson continued his downward spiral of anger and depression while the Pierces braced for attacks from street gangs, the police and a resurgent Tobias Whale.

Batwoman – “Fair Skin, Blue Eyes”

  • Though Ryan’s kidnapping was much shorter than Alice’s, the fact that they both experienced being held hostage by a lunatic for a long period of time gives them an unexpected connection. Could this connection be something they both discover later on to give them some even more unexpected common ground?
  • Now that Angelique is back in Ryan’s life, we should be seeing more of Ryan’s lesbian side. Would you ultimately prefer to see Ryan have a more stable love life or be more like Kate in having going through multiple love interests?
  • Is there still a chance that Alice could change course and realize that she doesn’t actually want to kill Kate, or is she just too far gone?

Black Lightning – “The Book of Reconstruction: Chapter Two”

  • Between Jefferson continuing to rough people up while not in his suit and the ongoing police investigation into him, could his identity as Black Lightning end up being exposed to Freeland?
  • Do you think this year-long time jump in between seasons was planned from the beginning, or could it have been a late change to the show?
Lastly, which episode was your favorite?
  • Batwoman – “Fair Skin, Blue Eyes”
  • Black Lightning – “The Book of Resurrection: Chapter Two”

0 voters

While I certainly don’t see them becoming friends and bonding over their similar trauma, I think this could ultimately be a factor, maybe even the deciding one, in Ryan choosing not to kill Alice. Unless they go for the unlikely and unpopular route of actually killing off arguably the most beloved character, Ryan’s journey of vengeance will only end in one way – choosing to spare Alice. The real question will be what leads her to that decision, and something like this playing a role could make it more interesting than the typical “If I kill the villain, I’m no better than them” logic we usually see in situations like this. Not that that’s bad logic, it’s just been done enough times that I’d definitely prefer to see something else play out. While sparing Alice might not necessarily mean Ryan has forgiven her for killing her mom, seeing the humanity and brokenness deep underneath Alice’s layers of homicidal insanity could be just enough to make Ryan realize that Alice might not deserve to die. Even if it just creates a bit of doubt in her mind, that could be all it takes to let her live

While I certainly wouldn’t be completely opposed to Ryan following in Kate’s footsteps in this way, I feel like it might ultimately be better for Ryan to have one solid love interest at a time. Not only would it be something different, but focusing on just 1 other woman at a time could help provide a better sense of focus as the show goes on. Granted, I did think the show did a good job of balancing Sophie, Julia and Reagan’s romantic involvement w/ Kate last season, but I feel like a general lack of focus is more likely to be a problem as these shows go on, so I think it’s worth considering. Granted, I’m not really sure that Angelique is going to be that person for Ryan, especially considering that Caroline Dries actually said that we should be worried about her return since Ryan has such a strong weakness for her. But regardless of whether or not she sticks around, I think that method is still the way to go while also continuing to develop other aspects of Ryan’s character

Though Sophie’s certainly still right to want to get to Kate before Alice, I also think that Alice still has more love for her sister than she’s leading on, even if she doesn’t realize it. I think the scene where she was going on for a bit about what Sophie would want her to say about Kate was actually pretty telling. Sure, she’d present it as being sarcastic on the surface and essentially saying that she feels the complete opposite of what she’s saying out loud. But that’d be more convincing if she stopped at “That I miss my sister more than anything?” She didn’t need the other lines to sell her act, and I think that you started seeing her façade of revenge starting to come down just a bit. The way Rachel Skarsten delivered that scene w/ some subtle inflections in Alice’s face and voice really looked to me like someone who was in fact starting to regret her path, but who was also so far down it and hasn’t yet properly dealt w/ her still-present anger toward Kate to actually deviate from it…yet. Since we’re set to find out more about what happened to Alice on Coryana, re-discovering her past could end up playing a big role in deciding what kind of future she really wants for herself

For that reason and several others, I’m really starting to believe that could end up being the case by the end of the season. Though I’m certainly yelling at Jeff in my head to calm down and take a step back before he goes too far, I also have to admit that this is definitely an effective way to showcase how deep his trauma and hurt goes. The Black Lightning of past seasons would never consider acting like this, but it’s also very much indicative of everything he’s lost. But he needs to get his head on straight or else his secret identity will be a thing of the past. Aside from those initial 2 threats, you’ve also got Tobias out there who could expose the entire Pierce family at any time as part of his elaborate revenge against them. Not to mention you’ve also got an entire police force looking to track all metas, which puts him, Anissa and Jen all at risk of being exposed

While I certainly do want him to suit up again at some point this season, his identity being exposed could still be how he’s essentially written out of the Arrowverse after this season. Perhaps it could be in a way that’ll still allow him to continue on as Jefferson Pierce, but force him to hang up the Black Lightning mantle for good. While I certainly wouldn’t have wanted that to be the case right after season 3, knowing now that the show is gonna end anyway, I think fully retiring as a superhero and re-dedicating himself to his family could actually be a good way to wrap everything up

I mainly bring this up because I’m starting to become increasingly convinced that this was actually a last-minute change. I already discussed some of the reasons why I thought the year-long gap seemed weird last week, and that continued to grow this week. The moment that particularly got me was when Jen said that “we just finished a war.” Now I know that a year can go by quickly (2020 is certainly proof of that), but I fail to see how an entire year is the same as something having “just” happened. You wouldn’t say that the pandemic “just” started, right? It’s a growing number of moments like this that don’t quite add up that make me think that either the producers decided on this update or they received some sort of mandate from the studio after they were well into production. Regardless of the exact circumstances, there’s just too much of this that isn’t quite adding up

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Am I the only one that didn’t realise Ryan was also a lesbian?

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The producers and Javicia Leslie did confirm it when she was cast, but it is something that would’ve been easier to miss by only watching the show until now. There were only 1 or 2 passing mentions of it in the 1st few episodes, but that part of her character will definitely get more focus now

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Commonality in kidnapping: it might be more of a parallel for the story telling. Also, it’s about the outcome; how Ryan and Alice ended up given the adversity they suffered.

The thing about Angelique is that she was the in for Ryan talking to Victor (i expect to spell his last name wrong, so i just won’t). Seeing how they repair their relationship would be more my thing. Also, the trope of balancing the civilian and hero lives when there’s trouble.

Alice is very mission oriented. It would take A LOT (as in ‘a lot a lot’) to get her to change course.

Jefferson is being very reckless. It is interesting how he is exacting retribution as Jeff and not BL, but still using his abilities. The time jump feels natural. In general, I am waiting for a Pierce Family Meeting, and not just about Lynn.

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I definitely feel that, though it’s also still worth remembering that Alice’s kidnapping lasted years and was far more traumatic than what Ryan went through. Had the circumstances of their situations been switched, I can’t help but wonder if their current-day characters would’ve also ended up a lot different

While I definitely would’ve hoped that Ryan wouldn’t be immediately forgiving of the person who was responsible for her having gone to jail, the showrunner’s comments have already indicated that won’t be the case, at least not at 1st. Hopefully by the end of the next episode, Ryan can air out her anger toward Angelique in a meaningful way that’ll actually allow them to move forward instead of just burying everything

I mean it is Alice. She is more ‘My way or the Highway’ and less ‘common ground’. But maybe Ryan will try and level with her at some point. But the rage she has for Alice is not something that she is going to easily walk away from.

Does Ryan know Beth = Alice? I can’t remember but she didn’t react the way I would have if I found out the girl who killed my Mom was also one of the reasons I was never found when I kidnapped…

Also, I know it has only been four episodes, but I am already a little tired of Ryan figuring out the case because she ‘knows a guy’ or ‘went through a traumatic experience we haven’t mentioned until this second.’ I guess it is better that Kate/Bruce buying their way through stuff. But I would like to see some detective work happen on this show.

I honestly hate love triangles. So I don’t mind just Angelique. Though, I would like to know why she was in Ocean’s apartment. And if she really is a good thing to happen to Ryan right now.

Alice killed Mouse. I really don’t think she’ll back out of killing Kate. I also don’t really think we’re ever gonna find Kate. But :woman_shrugging:

As for Black Lightning, that’s the only show I’m not currently watching. I got tired of it last season and decided to stop. Since they announced this is the last season, I might go back a watch it at some point but not while it is airing.

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Very true. I think if anything, Ryan might use that to level w/ herself regarding her anger. She’s been holding onto that for quite a while, and maybe this could be the key in finally letting that go

I’m sure she does. That’s gotta be an open secret among the main characters at this point. Also, is it really accurate to say that Beth is 1 of the reasons why Ryan was never found? I feel like Ryan’s kidnapping would’ve gone almost exactly the same had Beth never disappeared

It’s definitely something they shouldn’t rely on all the time, though I get the necessity in focusing on that element in the early episodes so that we can get to know Ryan better. I don’t think they should necessarily make Ryan more of a detective just because she’s now a Bat, but I definitely agree that there should be a little more of that kind of work present on the show in general

Unlike Ryan, it doesn’t seem like she’s been able to leave her old life behind, which is definitely bad news in this case

I definitely agree, but I still think there’s a possibility she could change course before finding out for sure 1 way or another

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True. But Ryan was still upset that they were looking for Beth and not her. I guess that was more of what I meant.

Fair point. I guess I just want to change it up a little bit. Instead of the same formula every episode. Though, it is early on with her character so I guess I understand. But still.

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I had not thought of it that way. It seemed to me that Alice’s kidnapping was for a much longer period and seemed to have messed with her mentally more. It seemed like her kidnapper kept her hidden more and was more worried of being found out than Ryan’s. Ryan’s kidnapper seemed to be secluded enough and it did not seem to bother her when people came around looking for missing people. I am not sure the two of them will bond over this mutual experience as Alice will surely feel hers was worse and how dare someone compare to what I experienced. I did like the distinction made between the search for white versus black missing people, as this allows the show another avenue to pursue of race that was not available when Kate was Batwoman.

I would like to see her with more love interests, especially after seeing this week’s episode where she still has drug issues. This week also revealed the reason Ryan went to jail was for this girl, so I am not sure if I like her. Maybe she can redeem, I would worry she would find out Ryan’s secret and sell it off for drugs. I would like to see Ryan date more, as Kate’s love life consisted of the same couple of people and it can get stale wondering who she was going to end up with. Ryan seems young enough that she should be seeing others.

I am really start to lose the understanding of why she wants to kill Kate at this point. I understand Kate betrayed her and had her locked up, but that was some time ago. Seems Alice has been doing well for herself even when she was locked up, so this does not seem to warrant the hate she has to kill Kate.

Finally, I was going to say it before they mentioned it in this week’s episode, but I liked the fact there was a painting by a Jack Napier, aka Joker’s alias from Batman 1989! I meant to mention this in previous week’s when they mentioned the artist, but they confirmed it was him in this week’s episode!!

I think if he is not careful. It seemed like a lot of the surveillance footage was removed, but there still was his partial plates. The police chief is suspicious and she is not like Henderson in supporting him. He keeps letting his anger get the best of him and if he is not careful it will go too far and then he will not only be exposed but showing as much brutality as what he is fighting against.

I am not sure. I feel they had Freeland become something of a war zone and needed a way to show recovery but not immediate. I like the fact Tobias is putting himself out there as a person rebuilding Freeland, sorta like Lex Luthor to Superman, except he knows Black Lightning is Jefferson. Sometimes you need the year jump just to not have everything in shambles, but also not enough time to be perfectly back together.