Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 38: Oct. 19-20 Episodes


The ladies of the Arrowverse continued kicking ass and taking names this week, and the Couch Club is back to break down this week’s latest installments. Starting on Earth-2, Stargirl showed us the Shadowlands in full as Courtney attempted to navigate Eclipso’s torturous world while her family worked to free her by any means necessary. Shifting gears to Earth-Prime, Supergirl and her team went after the dream totem next, but Kara was feeling the stress of balancing her civilian and superhero life with her two jobs constantly overlapping. On Wednesday night, Legends of Tomorrow kicked things off with the team having to take a train on their way to New York, while Astra and Spooner stayed in Texas to deal with a newly humanized Gideon. And finally, the reluctant partnership between Batwoman and Alice began as a new Killer Croc began kidnapping people around the city in an attempt to feed his voracious appetite.

Stargirl – “Summer School: Chapter Eleven”

  • Do you think that Shade is really dead?

Supergirl – “Nightmare in National City”

  • Should Kara have quit her job at CatCo?
  • Was Nia right to not accept her sister’s apology?

Legends of Tomorrow – “The Need for Speed”

  • What long-term impact, if any, do you think dealing with the aftermath of Hoover’s death will have on Nate?

Batwoman – “Loose Tooth”

  • What did you make of the two teased romances, Ryan/Sophie and Luke/Mary, from this episode?
What episode from this week was your favorite?
  • Stargirl – “Summer School: Chapter Eleven”
  • Supergirl – “Nightmare in National City”
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “The Need for Speed”
  • Batwoman – “Loose Tooth”

0 voters

While I feel like there’s a good chance he is actually dead, I also think there are also good odds that it won’t be permanent. For starters, we never did figure out why Jennie’s ring was showing 2 different spots for Shade in Blue Valley. Perhaps that other spot could hold a key to his resurrection? Or maybe the ring was just tracking it because that’s where Shade had been held up, so in a sense his presence was still there. Hopefully we find out soon. Also, him disappearing into a wisp of smoke at the end like that seemed to be similar to how he perished in the fight against Eclipso earlier, and we know that didn’t actually kill him. Maybe there’ll still be just enough of his spirit or something that’ll be lingering around to the point where he could be revived

But as to whether he’s actually dead as of now, I’m sticking to believing what we saw. Though Shade was stronger than he was in the previous episode, it was clear right away that he still wasn’t doing so good. And even if it weren’t for the very visible strain he was showing, I would’ve assumed that opening a portal to the Shadowlands would’ve taken a great amount of power. I guess he only had just barely enough strength left to do so, as I doubt he would’ve had enough the previous week, but it makes sense that the exertion of keeping the portal open for that long would’ve been enough to do him in in that state. I figure he would’ve gotten seriously knocked out even if he had been at full strength, so this much weaker state just wouldn’t have been enough to keep him alive. And now it looks like they’re down a big gun in the final fight against Eclipso, even if he does end up getting resurrected

As w/ many points of discussion, I’m conflicted on this one. In terms of the current circumstances and everything that’s happened this season, I think it does make sense for her to cut ties w/ the company that’s just changed so much for the worse since she arrived, especially since she started being a reporter. It’s admittedly a good point about how we shouldn’t spread ourselves too thin and how life’s changing circumstances can lead to a change in our priorities

But on the other hand, I also feel like this set of circumstances really shouldn’t have even been set up in the 1st place. The fact is that Kara’s a great journalist who, let’s not forget, won a Pulitzer right before Andrea took over, and we’ve gotten to see her really enjoy being a reporter for a few years before Lena sold CatCo. It just really sucks to know that Kara’s arc since last season has all been leading to this move when we could’ve gotten to see her continue thriving in journalism or at least push past Andrea’s methods to continue being great at a job she enjoys. This whole arc feels like a total betrayal of the whole “Supergirl is what I can do, but Kara Danvers is who I am” portrayal that was so effectively emphasized in earlier seasons. She’s ultimately having to sacrifice a huge part of what makes her Kara Danvers in order to better be Supergirl, and it’s a walkback that I really feel weakens her overall character

And what’s more, while I’m still not convinced it’ll actually happen, this move does make me more concerned that she’s cutting ties w/ her present so as to better set up a possible move to the future at the end of the finale, like in the comics. But that would be a complete betrayal of the woman who’s made it clear that this is where she belongs and that she wants to be w/ her friends and family – the people who make her life worth living. I just can’t possibly see her walking out on her sister, as well as Lena, Nia, Kelly, J’onn and now Esme. (I’m assuming Brainy would also return to the future, though him leaving Nia would make such a move feel even more awful.) Plus it would mean the possibility of Kara resuming a romantic relationship w/ Mon-El, which is just about the most abhorrent thing I can think of, so yeah, I’m really not a fan of anything that puts us closer to that possible ending

I do hope that Maeve is able to truly make things right between them, but I totally understand why Nia didn’t forgive her. While I do believe that Maeve’s apology was sincere, that alone isn’t enough to make up for the horrible things she said to her sister back in season 4. It’s a good message to send that 1 apology, no matter how well-said, shouldn’t immediately guarantee forgiveness for said person. I’m glad that Nia was able to strike an effective balance between staying firm against her sister’s transphobic insults, but also still having enough love left to recognize that there’s a chance they could truly mend things between them in time. Again, another disadvantage to the show ending is that we almost certainly won’t get to see that happen, but I guess it’s still nice to at least know the show won’t end w/ them still not talking

I doubt he’s gonna end up becoming more lax about killing and be willing to do so under the “right” circumstances, but perhaps this whole ordeal will allow him to take a bit more risk during the team’s missions. Given that he’s never taken a life before along w/ his passion for protecting and preserving history, it makes sense why being responsible for Hoover’s death hit him harder than it might’ve for someone else. But eventually he’s gonna have to truly accept that it wasn’t his fault, and that acceptance could come w/ a realization that he doesn’t always have to tiptoe around everything when it comes to preserving history. Of course he’s seen for years now how the team almost always screws something up but still manages to make things right in the end, and now that whole approach is affecting him on a much more personal level. But we know the Legends will make things right in the end, even if it’s gonna take a while longer this time around, and when that happens, I think it’ll allow Nate to set aside some of his reservations about being ultra careful w/ the timeline. It obviously still needs to be protected, but perhaps this turn of events can better show him that it’s OK to be a little more reckless like his teammates every once in a while

I’m 100% open to a romance between Ryan and Sophie, but I’m just left wondering where the hell these romantic feelings are coming from between Luke and Mary. I can’t say the same for the former, since I’ve definitely been getting hints at something deeper between them since last season, though it definitely feels like it’s being ramped up now. Actions like holding hands, long gazes at each other, spending time on a feelings balcony alone and more have definitely contributed to the feeling that there’s a mutual attraction here. It certainly would’ve been unthinkable earlier last season, but these 2 have made quite a bit of progress from the “Crowphie” days. I love how they’ve been able to overcome their differences and really come to rely on each other when they really need it. Even if I’m ultimately reading too much into this, it’s just great to see them as friends supporting each other considering how much they were at odds not all that long ago. And for Ryan specifically, I’m just excited at the prospect of giving her a proper romance. She still hasn’t shared a kiss w/ another woman yet despite briefly dating Angelique again last season, so I’m hoping that changes soon since her queerness is definitely an important part of her character that I really don’t want to be ignored

As for the other 2…I say again – what?? It’s baffling to me that after 2 years of Luke and Mary being completely platonic w/ no real hints of romantic feelings between them, they just suddenly start having the hots for each other? That whole scene where she was doing medical tests on him just felt so forced and out of nowhere. And I get it, Luke is obviously attractive and pretty ripped, but there’s a lot of room between generally appreciating those things and feeling like you wanna jump his bones right then and there. It also didn’t help the case for them as a potential couple that Luke immediately followed this encounter by being bitchy for the rest of the episode. That’s something you only associate w/ a little boy being mean to a girl he actually likes, and it’s bad enough when they do it, let alone when a grown-ass adult does it. If this continues into an actual romance, I’ll still be feeling like it’s not a good fit for them and borne out of the writers not knowing what else to do w/ them instead of capitalizing on natural buildup/chemistry. But if it’s just dropped and never spoken of again, then I’ll simply be wondering why the hell it was there in the 1st place


No, absolutely not. His powers are not fully explained, and he seemingly turned into black smoke, but this does not mean he cannot pull himself back together. He is too cool a well not villain but not hero to lose and he could be of help against Eclipso. It would be good to see him be able to fight him and help him beat him this time, for the sake of his friendship with Dr Midnite. Also, they mentioned when Jade was locating him that he was in two locations and they chose the theater. Then, they did not mention this again the rest of the episode. It makes me wonder if he hid part of his essence elsewhere as a backup plan to return as he knew saving Dr Midnite and Courtney would take a lot out of him. Consider the movie he was watching was the Portrait of Dorian Grey, which is about a person who is immortal because their aging it being taken care of in a magical portrait. The picture gets older, but the person remains forever young. Could he have been alluding to it?

When he joined the Legends, he was as a history expert. He still has his love of history and can remember all facts at once, like a historical Gideon. I think this has hit him quite hard, as he loves history and has been having fun travelling in time prior when they could just make people forget what happened and the history he knows still unfolds correctly. He has really been beating himself up, even going so far as to say he messed up the 20th century and that he is a nobody on the timeline. But ah, that is where the Legends originally came in. Rip Hunter gather a team of people who were nobodies and would have least impact if something happened to them. Kinda like a Suicide Squad but with more time travel. But they grew to be so much more than that, and I think Nate will come to realize it. His speech with the gangster about realizing you made a mistake and that there are things out of your control sounds like he is on the right path. I feel with his family around him, he will get better. Now we just need to figure out these robot Hoovers like someone is trying to put right what once went wrong, but with more Terminator mixed in.

The Ryan/Sophie one seems more believable at this point. They have been doing a slow burn with it, with a look her, a touch there. Sophie seems to really care about Ryan, and wants to help her, and Ryan went to her to share about her mom. It just seems more natural with the flirting.
The Luke/Mary thing kinda came out of left field for me. It seemed sorta shoehorned in when Luke was bare chested. There has not seemed to be any lead up to this, and to me they always gave off a brother/sister vibe. It seemed out of place for me, and took me out of the episode briefly when it occurred. I will wait to pass judgment, because I said the same about the Nate/Zari romance when it started in Legends, and the it became one of the best relationships. Right now, it seemed like we needed another couple for some reason.

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Also, can we say how cool Killer Croc looked on a CW show? The way his jaw opened up too. Of course, it seems like a stretch to say his tooth infected someone to become the new one, but still cool visual.

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For more Legends fun, visit the Legendary Island of Misfits for my summary of the week’s events:

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I figure most of us have just assumed that Shade would be a big part of the final fight against Eclipso, but killing him off would definitely be an effective way to subvert our expectations and force the JSA to be even more creative in figuring out how to take him down

Not sure why I hadn’t considered this, but it’s definitely a good point. Just the presence of the movie could suggest that other spot has enough of Shade’s life essence to ensure he’s alive. Still, I think this development means we can’t fully assume that he’ll be part of the final fight, but there’s definitely still at least a chance

They certainly have the kind of turnover you’d expect from Task Force X, but w/ slightly less death

Seriously. It just makes the whole thing feel even creepier. And if they actually do attempt a full Luke/Mary romance, it’ll totally knock out the possibility of anything happening between him and Steph, if she ever comes back, that is. That was a romance I thought worked pretty well and that I’d love to see more of, but it seems especially unlikely now

W/ the way Bruce was preserving his villain trophies, I feel like I can understand the Croc virus laying dormant in the tooth for years. And since nobody was ever able to find a cure for Waylon’s affliction, it’s not like he could’ve fully eliminated it from the tooth. But at any rate, I definitely agree that the new Croc looked really badass. Say what you will about the show and the 1st Suicide Squad movie, but they’ve both proven that taking a practical, makeup-based approach for Croc is way better than CGing him

Agreed. Those few scenes with those two had more chemistry than what they seem to be forcing with Luke and Mary


I hope not. He is too cool and I hope we get a ton more of him. We never figured out why the map had two points for him, so I hope this is a doppelganger effect type deal and he is actually somewhere else. Maybe.

But this whole episode was beautiful. I loved it. One of the best episodes of the season, easily.

They have been building up to this all season. But it still feels wrong. Kara needs her civilian identity. I’m worried about what will happen to her without it. I wonder if this is an affect of destroying the hope totem.

100% yes. Maeve said some really terrible things. Nia was kind enough to give her a second chance. But forgiveness is a whole other thing.

I assume William is gonna figure Kara out real quick now. I can’t imagine he won’t. I also don’t remember what happened to Lex last time we saw him but I am scared for what he has planned.

I feel like this episode wrapped up Nate’s PTSD well. They probably won’t linger on it because none of these shows ever do. But I think they showed it well in this one episode. And Behrad and Gary forgiving him for his behavior was a nice touch.

I really like Luke and Mary’s platonic friendship and I am not interested in a romantic relationship between them. I really hope they don’t continue down that path. They are way closer to brother and sister than anything else and I have really enjoyed that for the first couple pf seasons.

I actually saw the Ryan and Sophie moments this episodes as also platonic but I am someone who needs to be hit over the head with romance to notice it, so I guess it is fair that I missed it. I don’t mind the two of them as much as I do Luke and Mary but I don’t want to see a repeat of season one Sophie and Kate. Hopefully they find a middle ground or something.


That’s true, it’d suck to see them start a romance only for some BS superhero reasons to quickly derail it or have them do like a constant back and forth. I know that if they do get together that doesn’t guarantee they’d stay together, but if it does happen, a legit attempt to keep them together would definitely need to be made since it’d be a pretty significant development

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