Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 37: Legends of Tomorrow and Batwoman Season Premieres


This was quite a big week for the Arrowverse, as Legends of Tomorrow and Batwoman both returned for their new seasons on a new night, marking the first Arrowverse shows to premiere on a Wednesday in over four years since season 5 of Arrow. And it was certainly a memorable evening beginning with the Legends, who found themselves stuck in 1925 after the Waverider was destroyed and desperate to find any way back home. Over in present-day Gotham, Batwoman, along with new field partner Batwing, worked to track down the dangerous trophies of Batman’s rogues as the Mad Hatter’s hat fell into the hands of an unstable young man who felt that Alice had been wrongly imprisoned. Tuesday night also still held strong, as an injured Shade showed up at the Whitmore-Dugan house to seemingly offer a way to defeat Eclipso on Stargirl, and Alex and Kelly welcomed the newest member of their family as the Super Friends raced against Nyxly for the next totem – hope – on Supergirl.

Stargirl – “Summer School: Chapter Ten”

  • Do you think Courtney and her family would’ve still been willing to help Shade if he had been completely honest about what repairing the Black Diamond would do?

Supergirl – “Hope for Tomorrow”

  • Did you agree with Alex and Kelly’s decision to tell Esme that they’re superheroes so quickly?

Legends of Tomorrow – “The Bullet Blondes”

  • Are you hoping the Legends will get out of 1925 as quickly as possible, or would it be more enjoyable to see them continue navigating a single year for an extended period?
  • How do you see a human Gideon fitting in with the rest of the team this season?

Batwoman – “Mad as a Hatter”

  • Should Ryan have told Luke and Mary about her birth mother, or does it make sense for her to keep that secret to herself?
  • Did you realize that Alice wasn’t actually getting letters from Jacob before the reveal, or did you think that part was legitimate up until she discovered it had all been in her head?
What was your favorite episode from this week?
  • Stargirl – “Summer School: Chapter Ten”
  • Supergirl – “Hope for Tomorrow”
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “The Bullet Blondes”
  • Batwoman – “Mad as a Hatter”

0 voters

Maybe Shade just really didn’t wanna take any risks in case they would’ve said no, but I could actually still see them helping him even knowing the full truth of restoring the diamond. I don’t think restoring his health would’ve been much of a negative for them, as they’d be desperate for any help they could get in the fight against Eclipso. Plus it legitimately looked like he was dying w/out his powers, and while he’s obviously lived much longer than the average person, I doubt they’d wanna just sit idly by when they could save a life, especially in the wake of the Bruce Gordon reveal. And as far as the reformed diamond summoning him, I feel like they could’ve at least avoided a losing outcome like what actually happened by putting the diamond back together in a big open space or something. By doing that, they’d be able to easily flee as soon as the diamond was restored and avoid a conflict w/ Eclipso before they’re ready. It obviously wouldn’t accomplish as much as they would’ve hoped, but it could still be a step forward. Instead, not only is Courtney trapped in the Shadowlands, but Shade just used up the last bit of trust the JSA was willing to give him. He must be pretty confident that he can still defeat Eclipso on his own, because there’s no way in hell they’ll let themselves be fooled again after this debacle

It’s a definite risk for multiple reasons, but I think it’ll be worth it in the long run. They obviously knew they were gonna have to tell her at some point, but I feel like they might’ve thought that would come later on. Not only is there a bigger risk of Esme accidentally telling someone when she’s still a kid, but there’s also a chance they could worry her even more by telling her they’re actively involved in helping stop the bad guys. But while Esme might still not have that much trust built up w/ Alex and Kelly, she has been saved by Sentinel and Guardian recently, so the fact that that personal connection already existed means she’s more likely to be put at ease by this reveal compared to if they turned out to be heroes she had never seen or even heard of before. And considering they needed a big move to help ease her general fears and anxieties, this seemed like the right call. Hopefully this will help them to bond even more, which will generally make Esme feel more at home and Alex and Kelly feel even more secure about their abilities as parents

As eager as I am to see them go after the Waverider that destroyed theirs and figure out what exactly that was all about, I think being stuck here is also making for some pretty interesting material. I don’t remember the team being dedicated to 1 specific time period for any long duration of time, so seeing them have to rely on their personal skills/abilities instead of their usual tricks feels pretty different in a good way. We’ve already had several seasons where the team needed a specific reason to travel across history, but being stranded to this degree also still works for a time travel show. I’m sure we’ll return to that sort of familiar dynamic before too long, but I’m totally fine to keep them in 1925 for a while longer to see how they manage to creatively get out of this situation. Plus the fact that they’ll still be going to different places in this era will help to make it not feel stale. If everyone was completely confined to Odessa for half the season it’d be a different story, but hopefully New York is just the 2nd of several cities they’ll visit in the Roaring Twenties. We’ve really never spent more than a couple episodes in 1 particular period of time, so I figure getting this extra time in 1925 will help keep things fresh for the show compared the more familiar formula

A big part of that is gonna depend on whether or not she’ll still be able to operate as the same Gideon as before when the team eventually gets the Waverider back. We know Amy Pemberton is gonna be a regular as human Gideon for the whole season, so we’re not gonna see her fully be an AI anytime soon, but whether she reverts back to her original form next season or not, the Legends may still have to learn to operate w/out her even when they get the ship back. If that really is the case, then she’s really gonna have to carve out a purpose for herself on the team. Of course they’ll do everything they can to help her while she’s still on the ship, but if she doesn’t have access to any of her previous abilities, it’ll beg the question of what she has to offer

But whatever that may be, I certainly hope they’re able to figure it out before long because this is a really exciting change for Gideon that I’m looking forward to seeing more of. Pemberton’s voice has always been perfect for this role, and so getting to hear even more of her while also getting to see a ton of Gideon in human form is just fantastic. It also gives the show a chance to really give her an actual sense of character, which is only fitting since she’s technically an OG Legend alongside Sara. I know it might not seem necessary to do so for an AI , but considering this is still a role that Pemberton’s been in since the start of the show, I feel like it only makes sense to do something really new w/ her if she’s still gonna be around. Whatever happens w/ her this season, at least we know for sure that it’s gonna be eventful as opposed to the theories some of us had about “evil Gideon” early last season that never went anywhere

I know they’re gonna find out soon enough, but I actually think Ryan’s decision makes sense, even after she found out Alice was telling the truth. This is an entirely personal decision for her and not something where she could delude herself into thinking she’d be protecting her friends when really it’s something they’d need to know. What she’s really trying to do is protect herself from more hurt, and it makes sense that the hurt of finding the identity of the woman who abandoned her would probably outweigh the positives of satisfying her curiosity. Of course that’s all gonna come tumbling down shortly as Jada Jet makes her presence known (assuming she is in fact Ryan’s birth mother), but given what Ryan knowns now, I can stand by this decision. I think it’s a healthy move for her that reinforces that Luke, Mary and Sophie are all the family she needs right now

Given all the misdirects the Arrowverse has thrown at us in general and just the fact that Alice is still generally crazy, I really should’ve picked up on this sooner. I’ll admit that I actually did believe she was getting letters from Jacob until the reveal, and despite those factors that should’ve told me otherwise (along w/ the fact that prison inmates really shouldn’t have access to postcards), I think there were 2 main factors that helped me buy into this for a little while. First off, the fact that Mary believed it herself really helped sell it for me as well. If she thought Alice was lying then I probably would’ve been at least a little more suspicious, but she really never showed any sign of that. Given how smart she is, I guess I just figured that if the woman about to receive her doctorate thinks it’s true, then it probably is. Additionally, it does make sense to me that Jacob would be trying to make up for all the years he lost w/ Alice/Beth. Sure he still had things to make up for w/ Mary when he got arrested, but that still doesn’t compare to his situation w/ Alice in terms of lost time

Given that discrepancy and the fact that Beth was/is his biological daughter, it made at least some sense to me that he’d be more focused on her given that it hasn’t been that long since his faith in his daughter was restored. But I guess he ultimately hasn’t been reaching out to either of them since he got put in jail, so I have to figure he just isn’t able to at the moment. Maybe he wouldn’t be sending letters to Mary since she’s still able to visit him in person, but I have to figure he would’ve sent something to Alice if he was able to, but perhaps that could still be yet to come


I guess they could have laid a trap and then just ran after putting the diamond back together. But I honestly don’t know. I’d say maybe Courtney would have and Barbara with some convincing. But not Pat. Shade has definitely used up any and all trust he might have had with the JSA. Which is sad, because he is a cool character.

I’m guessing we are seeing the Shadowlands next episode. A trio teamup with Courtney, Cindy and Dr. Midnight 1.0? Should be fun.

Only because this is the last season. If this was anything else it would have been too rushed. But with Esme’s ability to sense powers and notice that Kara and Supergirl have the same powers, it was kind of inevitable that she was going to find out her mom’s are superheroes too.

That whole sequence was really cute. Esme looked so proud and Kara was so amazed. And then Esme looked so scared that she was going to get in trouble for figuring it out. That actress is adorable.

I enjoy the period stuff in small batches so I hope they find a way out soon. Though I guess I don’t have to worry about the bank robbing and Hoover storyline much now…

I am excited for this. She’s been fun every time she has appeared so to have her for an extended time will be great. I’ll be curious if she will have a wealth of knowledge or not. Or how any of that will work. But I guess we will find out.

I mean, it’s a superhero show, everyone’s gotta have at least one secret right? I’m sure they will all get blindsided by that later.

I thought it was weird but I guess I didn’t question it. Jacob had been weird last season and I knew he wasn’t coming back so I thought it was just a work in to remind us why his character wasn’t around. But I did like the reveal a lot.

The reveal I want is how alice knows about Ryan’s mom. Because whoever she is, she is powerful. So hwo did Alice get that info?


He definitely would’ve been the most resistant, but I’m not sure he would’ve been completely opposed to that sort of plan. The fact that he was ultimately willing to believe Shade when he said repairing the Black Diamond would imprison Eclipso again during the episode means he ultimately had just enough trust left to go along w/ what Shade was saying, though that’s obviously not the case anymore

I’m really hoping we can finally see some solid footage of McNider in the flesh. We’ve really only gotten voiceovers and brief glimpses of him so far, so hopefully Henry Thomas can get some actual solid screentime in after just teases for almost 2 full seasons

Possibly, though it wouldn’t be because of her abilities. It’s not like Alex and Kelly have any superpowers for Esme to sense, but perhaps the general connection of her new moms working w/ the Super Friends would be enough for even a child to figure out

1 of several reasons why I’d want a Sentinel/Guardian spinoff is so that we could see a lot more of Esme generally being extra cute :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Maybe not Hoover directly, but I have to figure they’re really gonna be feeling the fallout from his death quickly. They may not currently know what sort of impact it’ll have in the long term, but someone as important as Hoover dying well before his time is still gonna change things in the short term as well. It’s just a matter of making sure they get out of 1925 and fix things before this new timeline fully cements…

Based on the synopsis for the 100th episode, it seems like Gideon still has her memories, so I imagine that’ll come w/ the knowledge she had amassed up until the point the Waverider was destroyed. Though I can’t imagine she’ll still be able to provide the team w/ constantly updating info like she was before, that accumulated info could still really come in handy depending on what specific situations they get into shortly

If they’re gonna keep doing it, it should at least be for a legitimately good reason and not be something that others on the team really need to know for their own good. Thankfully I think this did both. I imagine Luke and Mary may initially be upset at Ryan for not telling them when Jada Jet inevitably gets in their way, but I think Ryan has enough justification for not telling them something she didn’t even wanna know herself

Yeah, that’s a very good question. I guess Alice must’ve utilized some hidden, creepy connections to get that information – I have to figure she’s got friends in very low places. Or maybe it’ll be revealed that she was actually bluffing the whole time. I mean why not just tell Ryan her birth mother’s name while you’re at it? Unless she wanted Ryan to do that part herself to prove she wasn’t lying. Idk, there seems to be a few ways that could go, but we’ve got plenty of time to figure it out


No, they would not have been willing to help, but then again that is what the Shade does best. He aligns with whomever will further his goals, and if it means lying about what will happen to get it, I can see him doing it. Now, in this case it may have been a case of self preservation because Eclipso had hurt him and he seemed to be dying. He needed to be healed and he did not care the cost could be others having to fight Eclipso when he was summoned, as long as he had his powers back. It could also be that he knew he needed to be at full strength to be of any use, but I feel like he was more looking out for himself.
Can we talk about the Easter Eggs in this episode? I saw when Beth had the goggles that it referenced Opal City and Ted Knight when she looked at the Shade. Also in the secret hideout for Pat, seeing the costumes, plus the newspaper headlines regarding various members including Green Arrow AND Speedy. I am sure I missed some more but wow!
Plus seeing flashbacks about the Shade’s origin from Dr Midnite, and then the possibility that Dr Midnite seems to be warming up to Beth instead of being against her.

I have faith in the writers on this show to not make it seem stale, so I would not mind them staying in the one time period for a while. It would be a different pace for the show, and they always try something new here. I get the feeling when they meet John…er Gwynn, that they will work out a solution for time travel and be able to get back. Heck, I believe they will need to close the time loop as it looked like one Waverider blew up the other one. It could be going back to the evil Gideon storyline that seemed to drop. Also, if they do go back to the future (best movie ever) there is still Spooner and Astra in 1925 and I would like to see this story play out there with her mom, rather than the tired trope of bringing the mom back with them.
I think it will be interesting. I think maybe she will need to learn humanity and maybe this will clear out the creepy killer vibes I got last season. It will be a new member who knows the history of the Legends and has been a family member for the longest time (heck, a version of her is on the Flash in that secret room in Star Labs) so it will be cool to see how she navigates being human and just learning to experience life.

It made no sense to me why she would keep that a secret. The only reason I could see if that she would be told she could not trust anything out of Alice’s mouth, and they would tell her so, but I do not see why she would keep it from them. They have gotten closer together, and they could even help her and support her. I am at least glad she confided in Sophie.
Honestly, this caught me off guard and I do not know why. I am usually good at spotting things a mile away, but for some reason I believed Alice, and they showed us the cards, but through her eyes. Then, thin king about it, why would the father connect with Beth unless it was through guilt for not searching for her all those years. Maybe that is why I believed it until the reveal. Then, we really saw how far she had gone.
Can we talk about Renee Montoya? I loved her in BTAS, and this is such a great take on her. She heads up the Rogues division, because of course Gotham would have one. It seems like Mulder on X-Files left to his own devices while everyone else takes care of law enforcement. She has such a knowledge of everything, showing she is a great detective. And blackmailing Ryan about her identity so she will work with Alice to recapture all of Batman’s lost trophies? Too cool and bad@$$!

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For more Legends fun, please visit my latest weekly summary located here:

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Regardless of whether or not he was actually dying, of course healing himself was always his main priority

The longer this show goes on, the more desperate we’ll get to actually see the Seven Soldiers of Victory, especially these 2. After all, it’s not like the CW has a competing Oliver and Roy to showcase anymore

As much as I love Gloria’s character, I really couldn’t see this happening regardless of how things progress in Odessa. Her most prominent ability is being a healer, but once they have the Waverider back online, the med bay will render that skill obsolete. It’d be cool for her to actually see the inside of the ship, but I doubt there’ll be any need to actually bring her along fully

Well it’s like she said, it’s something that she didn’t even wanna know herself. It’d become more real if she were to tell Luke and Mary, and 1 or both of them might even pressure her to learn her mom’s identity and maybe even go after her. If she decided to find out who her birth mother is, then it’d make more sense to tell them just because they’re friends who’ve become a family. But this is ultimately something that, as far as they know, only directly affects Ryan, so I think that makes it more understandable for her to keep it to herself

It was so great to see Victoria Cartagena slide right back into the role after being criminally underutilized on Gotham. I’m really hoping she’ll stick around for a few seasons because she’s just a great fit for the character in general. And while I doubt it was intentional, the line about not letting this become Jim Gordon’s Gotham did feel like it could’ve been a slight toward her last Bat-show :laughing: :grimacing:

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I hadn’t even caught she played the same role on Gotham. Too cool

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