This week at the Arrowverse Couch Club, we’re saying goodbye to Smallville for now as Superman & Lois wraps up its first season with a final battle for the fate of Krypton. With their son Jordan having been Eradicated and taken over by Zeta-Rho, Clark and Lois will stop at nothing to reunite their family and prevent a new Krypton from taking over the planet. The rest of this week’s slate saw the Legends get dangerously deep into a roleplaying board game while stuck waiting to return to earth, and Stargirl saw Green Lantern’s daughter, Jennie, start learning how to use her father’s ring and meet the JSA, despite Courtney’s objections.
Legends of Tomorrow – “Bored on Board Onboard”
Since we’re getting a much better sense of just how badly this addition has a hold of John and given the knowledge that he won’t be back after this season (but Matt Ryan will stay on), do you think he’ll survive this season or not?
Stargirl – “Summer School: Chapter Two”
With season 2 already introducing Jennie/Jade, Eclipso, the Shade and Thunderbolt, are you hoping to see Todd/Obsidian added to the mix, or does this season already feel too crowded as it is?
Superman & Lois – “Last Sons of Krypton”
Now that this season has wrapped up, where does it rank among other freshman Arrowverse seasons?
How excited are you at the prospect of Natasha Irons joining the team next season?
The more I think about this arc amid John’s entire journey, I’m really starting to feel like this will in fact end w/ his death. First off, I don’t think we’ve had any Legends be truly killed off since Rip, and while I know the show isn’t nearly so dark and gritty that that’s gonna happen quite a bit, it’s still been 3 whole seasons, so it kinda does feel like they’re due. But beyond that, 1 thing that certainly is dark is Constantine’s character arc in general. Sure, he started out this season on a much more optimistic note after getting back his soul, but this season is certainly proving that he may still be damned in other ways. This addiction is easily 1 of the lowest points of his life, and this is despite the fact that besides his soul, he’s also in love w/ an amazing woman. This should be one of the greatest times of his life and yet his self-destructive tendencies continue to ruin things for him
Of course I know this current situation isn’t entirely his fault, but he just hasn’t been able to shed enough of his arrogance to truly live a good, happy life. You can certainly argue that sacrificing his magic earlier this season was a selfless move to save Astra and the rest of the Legends, but they wouldn’t have been in that situation in the 1st place if John had been a better mentor to Astra from the start. Then she wouldn’t have even considered turning to Crowley and that whole situation could’ve been avoided entirely. But perhaps something like this was always doomed to happen. If not the giving up his magic so that he could search for the Fountain of Imperium and get addicted, then it probably would’ve been something else similar. For all the lives he’s ruined and how much his own actions end up sabotaging himself, he could come to the realization that this is just going to be his life no matter what he does
W/ that in mind, an opportunity to do something truly selfless, probably sacrifice himself to stop this evil magic and save the Legends, could very well present itself at the end of the season, and if it does, I feel like he’d probably end up taking it. Given all the resurrections and John’s unique relationship w/ the afterlife, something like that certainly doesn’t have to mean we never see him again, but it does feel like the kind of thing that’d cap off a twisted journey like John’s. I know it would hurt to see, but if written right (which I’d certainly trust these writers to do), then it could be a morbidly beautiful way to send him off
I think it’d be good to see Jennie find her brother given her strong desire, but maybe a relatively brief introduction would be for the best before Todd would really be established in season 3. In general, I definitely wanna see him on the show, not just for the sake of getting more JSA-connected characters from the comics, but also because he’d presumably be the show’s 1st LGBTQ+ character, and they definitely need something in that area. I know I’m probably getting ahead of myself considering we only just got introduced to Jennie, but I also get the feeling that when she inevitably returns to Blue Valley, it could be w/ her brother in tow. That could be an effective way for the show to get more efficient w/ all the arcs this season – have Jennie’s journey to find her brother be off-screen so as to keep the focus in Blue Valley, but then the twins return later in the season to provide a big boost in the fight against Eclipso and/or Shade
And speaking of Shade, another reason why having Todd be more of a season 3 presence would probably be good is so as to avoid having too much focus on 2 metas w/ shadow-based abilities this season. While I think the contrast between Todd’s shadows and Jennie’s light could make for some effective character contrasts, I’m not sure you really need shadow vs. shadow this season when the show already has an effective variety of powers and abilities in both its heroes and villains. Although, if Jennie wasn’t a meta before merging w/ the Lantern, then it stands to reason that Todd won’t be either. What if through some sort of encounter w/ Shade later this season, he ends up developing his shadow-based powers from the comics? And then that could be further explored in season 3. OK, now I’m really getting ahead of myself, but speculating is always half the fun of these discussions
Well I’ve still got Flash as my top Arrowverse debut season (or just top Arrowverse season overall), but this one…is complicated. Objectively speaking, it was great and I really should just absolutely love it. We had an interesting story, great acting, consistently solid effects, fantastic cinematography that really only Stargirl is matching as far as the Arrowverse goes, and plenty more. In so many ways, this is the kind of project that Tyler Hoechlin and Bitsie Tulloch have deserved since we 1st saw their Clark and Lois make their debuts. They’ve been fantastically cast from the start, and so seeing a show that fully utilizies their talents is always satisfying to see. But…
Yeah, I’m gonna bring up easily my most common complaint from this season one more time. Despite this show claiming to be part of the Arrowverse, we got next to nothing in terms of connections to any of the other shows, and easily worst of all, Supergirl didn’t get a single reference/name-drop at any point. Aside from Clark and Lois having appeared in shows/crossovers previously, all we got were a couple mentions of Lex Luthor, 1 of James (Jimmy) Olsen and a cameo from John Diggle. But those name-drops felt more like general comic easter eggs instead of references to the specific established versions of those 2 characters, and Dig barely did anything significant in his appearance while not advancing his own storyline this year at all
I have to wonder if this approach is mirroring what the DCEU is currently doing w/ their movies – having them each be more standalone features that require little to no knowledge of any previous films in the continuity. While it does at least seem to be working better for them then when they were trying to hastily replicate the MCU formula, I’d certainly hope that this isn’t another case where the shows are having to take cues from the movies. I know this is just speculation, but that approach felt exactly like what S&L did this entire season and so it really wouldn’t surprise me. I know the pandemic has obviously thrown a lot into whack, but like I’ve said before, that shouldn’t have prevented them from just making the occasional reference to some other hero on another show, especially Kara. I really hope this show feels like a true part of the Arrowverse next season, but I can’t say that my hopes are currently at all high on that front. And as far as comparisons to other shows, I guess I’d put it about equal w/ Batwoman’s debut season – pretty great overall, but 1 technically small problem really hampered my overall enjoyment of it (that issue being how the season was cut short in BW’s case)
So excited! I know nothing’s been officially confirmed yet as far as Tayler Buck’s status for next season, but I have to figure that the episode’s ending is setting her up to be a regular. And it’s such a great move on plenty of fronts. On the surface, it’s an instant boost to the show’s female, BIPOC and queer representation (assuming they don’t change that last part from Nat in the comics). I know S&L was solid in female representation this season w/ Lois, Lana, Sarah, Chrissy, Leslie and Martha’s legacy inspiring everyone, but strengthening it is almost never a bad thing, especially for a show that’s still mostly male. It’s the latter 2 categories that it desperately needed help in. It seemed like just about every Black character who had more than a couple lines had some sort of antagonistic element to them this season (remember, we all assumed John was gonna be this season’s big bad before the Steel reveal), so having someone who’s a hero from the outset is very much welcome. Plus there wasn’t even a hint of LGBTQ+ rep this season, so assuming Nat is gay, bi, pan or something else that’s just not straight, it’ll be great to see
But regardless of all of that, I’m just really looking forward to seeing her in this new world, reunited w/ her dad and reacting to all the changes, particularly when it comes to Lois. There’s so much potential for them to form a sort of mother-daughter bond as the show goes on, though I’m sure that’d take a while to get to. I fully expect Nat to be resistant to our Lois as soon as she finds out she’s not actually her mother, but Lois’ kind heart combined w/ her tenacity is practically a guarantee that they can still form a bond. She could become like a sister to the boys, and if her arc really follows from the comics, she can even end up making her own super suit to join her dad and Clark out in battle. I just hope that when they do the inevitable “overprotective parent doesn’t want their kid out fighting as a superhero” cliché, it doesn’t last for like more than an episode
Since we know that this is the last season for John, and that the actor is remaining in a new role (similar to Charlie), I would say the odds are not in his favor to survive the season. They have been showcasing how much he feels he needs the magic to feel like himself. He is seeming more impulsive too like when he brought the ship to space or when he brought everyone into a game when he did not understand the rules of the game. We have seen Zari 2.0 talk about how she has fallen in love with him, but I do not know if we have seen him lately been kind. She seems to turn a blind eye to his change in behavior, which could be dangerous. Now that we have Bishop and Kayla back for the last few episodes of the season, I could see Kayla switching sides to help Mick, and seeing JOhn become totally evil and take care of Bishop but now be the bigger threat. I could potentially see him show some of the old John if he accidentally hurts Zari or Astra, like a flicker before he decides he needs to stop himself. Or worse if the team has to be the one to do it, such as Zari or Astra. There may be a slim chance that he has to be trapped in another dimension to keep the options open, but I do not think so.
As a side note, initially I was not sure about him stopping as John and playing an entirely new character, but then again they did the same with Vixen and Charlie and the writers seem to know how to work in new ones each time. Just as a side note, I feel for Nate. He loved Vixen and then CHarlie came in. He loved Zari 1.0 and Zari 2.0 came in.
I do not think it will be too crowded. The first season introduced an entire team of heroes AND villains, and it felt natural. We even saw the original JSA too! I am hoping to see her brother added into the mix, as well as the tease of Jakeem for Thunderbolt, as it adds to the ranks. Especially if Shiv is recruiting a team of her own to face. PLus we already have Shade. Also can how much I love the mechanic (Deke is it?) who now helps DUgan with his robot project. He is welcome addition of humor to me, and does not seem to mind a large robot.
I also have enjoyed how we have been seeing signs of Grundy without seeing him. It is a way to maintain budget of the show for other effects, while working the tension and building up to when we see him again. The use of perspective from the trees is very effective for me.
I really enjoyed this season. It had a lot of action and a plan from the bad guy with background on him to show why he does what he does. I also liked the family relationships as it felt real to me especially with the brothers fighting and support of each other, as well as Clark and Lois’s loving marriage which also had its struggles too. I also enjoyed that it self contained itself and wrapped up a lot of the storylines by the end of the season while introducing a new angle for next season.
Which leads me to how I am excited to see Nat part of the team now! Maybe John will not be so down now that his daughter is around, as we know he did not visit his sister from another universe this season for some reason. Maybe he did not visit his sister because her brother died in this world and does not want to bring that grief up again.
I think Nat will be a nice counter to the boys and it will be interesting to see her interactions with Lois. I do worry how she will freak out at seeing Superman seeing as he was a killer on her world, similar to how John was, but John should be able to talk her through.
I don’t think he will survive. Constantine doesn’t have a good track record with addiction and I really think it’s gonna kill him this time. Or, a sudden thought, maybe he’ll do the painting trick he did on that old guy from earlier in the season? And while he returns as a new character next season ‘John’ will still make an appearance or two?
Also, this was my favorite episode of the season. It almost felt like a filler episode at the start and then they dropped a couple bombshells and it became a very important one instead.
I would love to see Todd. And with Shade showing up, maybe Shade is one who has Todd? My comic knowledge here isn’t very good, but maybe Shade has something to do with Todd and his shadow powers.
It does feel crowded but they introduced way more last season and it worked. It just depends on how everyone is introduced this season. And so far it is working.
I have a terrible memory for what happened in what season. But few things will beat the first season of Flash and this came in at a close second. Mostly because I just know the Flash lore better. This was a great first season and I hope they can keep this level or get better next season and beyond.
This will be fun. It’ll be a weird family dynamic for sure. I expect a couple serious talks about children and parents and life, etc. at the beginning. But they should be able to get a good dynamic going.
Also, has anyone else noticed in wide family shots Jordan always stands next to Clark and Jon next to Lois? I know they are mirroring the powers vs non-powers but it was really obvious to me in this last episode.
He’s had some nice moments w/ Zari, but they’ve been quick in favor of ones where he’s losing himself to the addiction. This could be seen as yet another example of how love is blind and all
Amaya was great but I think I liked Charlie even more. Though I doubt Gwyn Davies will surpass 1 of my absolute favorite Arrowverse characters, I’m still confident he’ll be a fun, interesting character w/ Ryan still in the role
Even though they’ve only been name-dropping him so far, Alkoya Brunson was cast as Jakeem a while back, so we’re definitely gonna be seeing him soon enough. It looks like they’re probably gonna tease Mike being the host for Thunderbolt before ultimately having Jakeem take up that role, which I’m sure would serve to make Mike feel even more neglected, pushing further toward Cindy…
We obviously know that Grundy’s the one taking the food, but I feel like Rick needs to set up a hidden camera or something in that spot to make sure. You leave food out in an open spot in the woods and it’s gonna get eaten, so for all he knows it could just be some random animals taking it every time
I imagine she’ll come back into play sometime next season, but this is also a very good point. Earth-Prime’s JHI has been dead for years, so he can’t exactly just casually walk up to her and say “Hey sis.” The trauma of losing her brother along w/ the guaranteed confusion of the multiverse/doppelgängers makes for a really tricky situation. But w/ Nat back in his life, I’m sure she can provide the push he needs to make contact and help him come up w/ a plan to approach the situation in a sensitive way
I can see her promising her dad to stay calm, Clark revealing himself and then she immediately grabs the biggest gun she can
Oh man, that does seem like it could be a possibility, but also one that John might think is worse than death. If he’s given the option between the 2, I feel like he honestly might prefer death
I haven’t really noticed that specifically, but it’s not surprising given the dynamics. I figure they’ll continue leaning into those parallels next season, but hopefully there’ll still be dedicated time for Lois/Jordan and Clark/Jonathan
We’ve had 3-and-a-half seasons w/ him, and considering the amount of turnover on the Waverider, that’s actually a pretty solid run. And it’s not like this has to be the last we ever see of him as Constantine in any project. Ryan’s continued run on Legends will definitely limit what else he’s able to do during that time, but there’s still plenty of possibilities such as more animated projects
S&L - As with Supergirl’s first season, this show had to establish itself. Yes, I can easily concede to having someone mention Kara very in passing in at least one (1) episode. I am assuming it was to make sure this Superman iteration has its own legs to stand on. In this case, it’s the family Clark and Lois are making, which is a recent development in the lore. It sort of mirrors Supergirl’s and Batwoman’s first seasons. They assume knowledge of Superman and Batman, respectively, but focus on the protagonist trying to succeed on their own.
Natasha’s join will add another family dynamic. JH and Supes are both dads. I noticed in Arrow, how they would play Oliver off other characters who were also fathers, depending on where he was in his arc with respect to his son. I am not super familiar with her, but I don’t mind going in cold.
Stargirl - It doesn’t feel too crowded. I am really liking Eclipso. If i ever get back to that JL: Dark run i was reading in World of Wonder, Eclipso’s gem (crystal?) was going to be used for something extremely dangerous. If we ain’t going to get Diggle Lantern, I will gladly take Jade. and she don’t have to be green neither (well maybe her hair, like Beast Boy or Polaris on The Gifted).
Legends - My guess is John is likely going to go out in one hella blaze of glory and sacrifice.
Mick didn’t want to abandon Kayla, but he had to make a decision. And now the consequences.
I was wondering how they were going to get Bishop into a new body. Meat printer.
Spooner and Astra as lady broheims works for me.
I wonder if the Flash crossover episodes are going to somehow include Ava and Sara’s wedding.
I understand this logic on its own merits, but it kinda falls apart when you realize that of the 20 episodes in Supergirl’s 1st season, 18 of them had some sort of name-drop/reference to Superman (Clark, Kal, cousin, etc.). It just feels like an ugly double-standard where S&L couldn’t be remotely bothered to afford Supergirl anywhere close to the same level of courtesy