Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 25: The Flash S7, E16

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SPOILER ALERT!

This was another week of just one new Arrowverse episode, but with The Flash speeding (pun intended) toward a particularly big season finale, this proved to be another big installment of the Godspeed war. With Barry and the rest of the team needing to figure out why the two factions of Godspeed clones were fighting each other, they got a surprise boost in the form of their old friend, John Diggle. Not only did he bring a key piece of tech that could give them an edge in the conflict, but we also got further insight into the strange headaches he’s been suffering from lately. And elsewhere in and out of S.T.A.R. Labs, Allegra had to talk her cousin, Ultraviolet, down from going after the remnants of Black Hole so soon after her voice-restoring surgery, while Joe and Kramer’s search for answers finally led to them encountering Adam.

The Flash – “P.O.W.”

  • What do you think could’ve caused modern-day August Heart to have such severe memory loss?
  • With Cecile referring to Dig’s headaches as something “infinite” and him hearing the line “worlds await” in his head, we look to be even closer to fulfilling his ultimate fate as a Green Lantern. Do you still think that’s the case or does it seem like this could all actually be indicative of something else?
  • Did Ultraviolet’s death feel like a fitting end for her character, or would you have preferred to see more of Esperanza?
  • Do you think there’s any truth to Adam’s claims that he’s immortal and that the real Kramer is dead, or did this just seem like a desperate attempt to throw her off?
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Given that Godspeed gains his speed from a version of the Velocity drug, I have to wonder if that’s ultimately the cause of such a big occurrence like this. Granted, I have absolutely no idea how he would’ve gotten access to any version of the drug or even known of its existence in the present, but w/ no other clues to go off of, this feels like it could be the best explanation. We know the versions of Velocity can have some pretty bad mental side effects over time, like how Trajectory developed multiple personalities when she used it. They’d ultimately have to explain how August got the drug and that he had been using it for a while, but it could tie things together nicely w/ the Velocity in the future

I know they’re gonna play coy until we get a full resolution to this storyline, but I really don’t see how this can lead to anything other than Green Lantern. The lines from this episode are very much implying something cosmic and certainly fit in w/ the GL legacy perfectly. Though he’d be assigned to Sector 2814, there are still a great many worlds in that part of the universe, and he’d get have a perfect chance to visit many more of them as a Lantern. And compared to Cecile’s limited adventures on earth, mostly just in and around Central City, guarding the entire known universe is certainly something that would seem quite infinite in comparison. I get that we can’t definitively say that this is GL until it’s fully confirmed in 1 of Dig’s appearances, but this really did seem to narrow down the list of possibilities. Until/unless we get something that directly contradicts this main theory, I’m just gonna keep going along w/ it over the course of his final 2 appearances

I’m assuming they’ll still be in chronological order, given that he mentioned his trip to Gotham in this episode, which leaves me wondering how/why he goes to Smallville and then National City. My thought is that Dig is now starting to think this is something alien in origin, and so he’s gonna consult the 2 main alien experts he knows: Superman and Supergirl. W/ National City being in California, Smallville would be closer to him so he’d go there 1st, only to find that Clark has been “brainwashed” by Edge. Then he’ll go to National City and hopefully be able to get a definitive answer from the Super Friends, all while helping inspire Kelly to become Guardian. It’s weird to think that we might finally be getting Dig as Green Lantern on Supergirl, a show he’s never been on in 6 seasons outside of a crossover, but it is set to be his last appearance, so that’s where the hope is gonna be directed toward :crossed_fingers:

I’m still holding out hope that this might be a fakeout given the weird way her body disintegrated when she died, but assuming this is it for Ultraviolet, it really feels like a waste. I don’t understand why the show would dedicate an episode to getting Esperanza further away from her path of vengeful rage and promise to finally fix her voice, only to then kill her off just 2 episodes later. I know my speculation about her possibly joining Team Flash was a long shot at best, but there was still a lot of potentially good material we could’ve gotten between her and Allegra going forward. Allegra would be able to fight to redeem her cousin despite all the bad things she had done as Ultraviolet, and Esperanza could continue helping Allegra hone her powers, especially now that she’s leveled up. It would’ve given Allegra more of a purpose on the show, but now that path is wiped out. I just don’t see how this move benefits either of them, though I’ll at least admit I’m pretty curious as to why the writers thought this would be the best move. Like w/ Frost, the only way to make such a dramatic move like this worse is to just pretty much gloss over it soon after

While it does seem like too much info to dump out all at once, the fact that Adam didn’t take advantage of the situation to try and get away or take down Kramer and Joe seems to indicate that he may actually be telling the truth. Given all of Kramer’s hatred for metas, I had been thinking that she might actually be revealed to be a meta herself, and that could certainly explain how she survived the ambush. Perhaps she has some sort of regenerative ability that she never actually knew about. And as for Adam’s immortality claims, he did seem awfully confident for a guy who had a big-ass gun pointed right at him. We only have his word to go off of in terms of whether or not he’s actually died that many times, but considering he looked like he really didn’t care if Kramer shot him or not in that moment, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has some sort of heightened healing ability. But at the end of the day, all of this may not really matter. I still think this arc will end w/ Adam being taken down and Kramer will finally realize that not all metas are bad. It almost feels like this part of Kramer’s arc was designed more so just to give Joe something more to do, similar to how the 1st part of it was made for Frost

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That is a good theory about the synthesized speed force formula causing memory loss. We are just introduced to him this episode, so I do not know enough, but it does look like he comes from the future since he is hanging around the future site of one of the places he knows. It all depends on when he came here from the future. Another theory could be that he came while the forces were being born, so this caused him to undergo memory loss due to all the storms that were raging at the time. Some Still force and some Sage force could combine to make him lose track of time and change his mind. Another option I could foresee if that the past has changed so much and that now what he had as memories no longer exists be cause the future is now different. Maybe a remnant of Crisis energy with everything collapsing to one earth (or so they believe).

I was getting really excited to see they even showed the flashback to him opening the box with the green glow. I know they tweak origins and characters on these shows to not be exactly what you are expecting, but I really hope it still all leads to him being a Green Lantern. They showed his stepfather had a last name of Stewart and the green box, it all seems poised to happen. I was not aware he was going to appear on Superman and Supergirl as well. This makes me feel better because part of me was worried that this was it, and they would leave it for a future show to resolve. Or worse, being resolved in the Green Lantern show on HBO Max as I no longer have a subscription.
Seeing “worlds await” really makes me think the Guardians are trying to get him to accept the responsibility. I do not think I remember seeing in the comics any person saying no to a Green Lantern ring, so it is curious to see the effect and how you really cannot say no if you are chosen. I was soooo hoping to see a little blue man in the visions that Cecile was having from feeling John’s pain.

I have said it before, Esperanza has not been on the show too much and only now was starting to seem to turn her life around when it “ended”. I did not know much about her character to this point, so this death did not impact me like it would have if she redeemed herself and became a hero and sacrificed herself. If they killed her off just to make Allegra into a darker not as optimistic person out for revenge, then that was a waste. She becomes a plot device at that point not a character.

I would believe Adam is immortal, maybe he is the Resurrection Man in this Arrowverse? I mean we have had immortal before with Vandal Savage and with the Lazarus Pits, so it does not seem too far a stretch for a meta power. It would explain why he became a mercenary and how he would put himself in danger to take out others because who would believe he would kill himself too.
I am curious about the mystery about Kramer as she does not seem to remember dying. Of course, it might be the case that Adam thought she was there with the rest of the troops and died with them and did not realize she did not die. But I do not think they would have laid that tidbit out just to brush it off as a misunderstanding. However, if she did die and come back, I would hope maybe as a clone (Bishop seemed to be able to make them have all their memories) instead of a meta, only because I am tired of the trope that it turns out I am the thing I hate most in the world.

I was almost going to say that I wondered if Candice Patton was either isolated due to COVID, sick or on another project because for the last few episodes we have not seen her. Sure, Barry has talked to her on the phone but we only heard his side of the conversation. But then we see her briefly in this episode to find out she is being hidden by Deon for some issue of coming in and out of time? This seemed to come out of left field.

Which brings me to another complaint I have had about these last few episodes. I do not fully understand the Godspeed War (maybe it is explained better in comic books), but they have appeared sporadically recently, and the second half of season they are full on here with little explanation. OK I get they want the original August Heart but it seems jammed in to this second half where we also have Allegra/Ultraviolet drama, Barry and Iris trying to have kids, Kramer and Joe chasing Adam, and now Iris having issues. It seems like they should have slowed down and built up to the Godspeed War or chose one of the other storylines to get rid of. It seems like they are trying too much and I am not sure how it all fits. Maybe they will show me it works together.

I will admit though, it was cool to see a live action Impulse. His reaction and speedy talk and questions really are how I envision him so I am looking forward to the next episode.

By the way, enjoy your movie. I will most likely catch it after I get back from vacation so no spoilers please!

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By the way I will be curious how Diggle’s cameo goes on Superman if he follows that with Supergirl. Considering the dearth of Kara mentions will we finally see a reference to Clark’s other family? Or will Clark ask oh who are visiting in National City ( and we grumble and yell again).

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I do like this theory. When Godspeed said that the prime August was in the present, I just figured it meant that August was alive in Central City in the present as most people who are also alive in the future would be (though not necessarily Central City). But the idea that August was actually brought specifically to the past from the future is something I hadn’t considered. Of course we have no idea how/why that would’ve happened, but perhaps the journey wasn’t as smooth as we’re used to seeing w/ time travelers and had some nasty side effects on his memory

The real issue is gonna be if his Supergirl appearances still leaves things unresolved, though that’s also months away so we could find out that there’s actually more in store for him by then

I’m pretty sure that’s taking place on another earth, and it’s probably Earth-12 as teased at the end of Crisis

It’d be epic if we saw any of the Guardians, but also pretty funny if they were only described. Like after those pretty epic and cosmic descriptions, Cecile just goes right into also seeing tiny blue people :laughing:

Yeah, I’m definitely worried this might be the case. Even though Flash has a reputation of being 1 of the lighter shows of the Arrowverse, there’s already been enough brooding and self-blame here to fill multiple shows. Unless there’s a really creative spin on it, we just don’t need more of that, especially w/ someone like Allegra. Though she hasn’t been my favorite character, I have appreciated her sense of optimism that was still realistic and not completely blind to all the hardships she’s gone through. But if she just becomes another super angsty character, I imagine she’d be considerably less enjoyable

I’ll be honest, I know next to nothing about Resurrection Man, so I can’t really speak much to this idea. But I’m all for more connections to the comics, so I’d say bring it on. RM does seem like the kind of under-the-radar character who’d be prime to become 1 who gets a renewed level of attention in the Arrowverse

Yeah, I was noticing this too before she showed up, but it does seem to be just a creative decision. Even after looking again, I haven’t seen anything about Candice being unavailable for even a short stretch. And given this new development, it seems like it was an intentional decision to keep her hidden for an episode and a half. But she definitely needs to be more prominent in the finale, especially since I don’t wanna see her miss out on a chance to meet her son

I definitely agree, and find it especially odd that this season only has 18 episodes instead of the usual 20+. Not only does the smaller count give them less time to do everything, but w/ having to wrap up Eva’s arc from last season, the Forces storyline and the other assorted episodes from this season (Cisco’s goodbye, Allegra’s episode, etc.), I feel like they kinda wrote themselves into a corner w/ this. Or maybe the writers were initially promised more episodes and then that got cut short. Either way, only having 4 episodes to show this arc while also having to deal w/ Allegra/Esperanza, Joe/Kramer and the 150th episode is just too much

My hope is now that we’ll finally be getting a solid appearance of someone from the established Arrowverse besides the leads, Dig will also serve as a branch point to other references outside of Smallville. Like maybe he’ll ask Lois if they’ve called Kara to help w/ this Edge situation, and she’ll explain that Kara’s been trapped in the Phantom Zone this whole time. Something simple like that would go a long way in forgiving the lack of Kara mentions on that show so far

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I mean Legends has shown adverse side-effects to time travel. Maybe he was thrown through time and his memory got messed up? But beyond that I have no idea.

I would like some closure on this GL plot line. Even if it is a yes or no. It’s weird for him to get these headaches and such just because he refused the ring. So I wonder what else might be going on.

I was really confused. We set up a redemption arc and then killed her? I hope this isn’t a plot device for Allegra to become Ultraviolet herself and get all angry and depressed. That would be a waste of Esperanza’s character.

Either way it just got very interesting. Either Kramer is a meta and doesn’t know it or Adam is lying or Kramer is a clone? If Kramer is immortal like Adam I wonder how it will change her personality now.

And my boy Bart!!! Ahhhh. I’m so excited for next week. Now we just need Tim and Conner and I’ll be happy. :laughing:

Also, I hope Candice is actually okay. The last two episodes have been weird. I wonder if she had a prior commitment or something.

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Well assuming this is all GL-related, I’d imagine the Guardians are none too happy about him refusing. Whether they’re actively causing these pains or it’s just something built into every ring in case the one who’s chosen refuses, they’re clearly not taking no for an answer and will only let them let up if he accepts

I’d definitely like to see Allegra finally take up an alias for herself, but not like this

If she is, she could always hit up Sara and Ava for clone support. That’d be really strange if another character ends up being a secret clone

If Titans actually crosses over w/ the Arrowverse, Young Justice would very well happen like this!

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What do you think could’ve caused modern-day August Heart to have such severe memory loss?
Your guess is as good as mine. I thought the introduction of the dark matter would be the start of his transformation into Godspeed.

With Cecile referring to Dig’s headaches as something “infinite” and him hearing the line “worlds await” in his head, we look to be even closer to fulfilling his ultimate fate as a Green Lantern. Do you still think that’s the case or does it seem like this could all actually be indicative of something else?
The end of the episode had Diggle acquiescing about accepting the green glowing thing in that box that fell from the sky. Infinite isn’t a word I’d necessarily use with respect to the GL Corps. I am interested in seeing a potential Lantern reveal play out.

Did Ultraviolet’s death feel like a fitting end for her character, or would you have preferred to see more of Esperanza?
It’s kind of tropey. Allegra chose her other family instead of her blood and that choice ended with watching Esperanza die. In her arms. You may draw your own conclusions.

Do you think there’s any truth to Adam’s claims that he’s immortal and that the real Kramer is dead, or did this just seem like a desperate attempt to throw her off?
The way I interpreted it is that he believed Kramer to be dead. And that he wasn’t lying about his ability. Which comes from Joe and Kramer figuring out that Adam didn’t know whom he was tracking.

One of my big questions is if a future Godspeed clone kills present day August, won’t it cease to exist? The rebel clones don’t want to die, but killing the source material before they come into existence will prevent them from existing.

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That’s a good point, and I guess that does support the idea that this isn’t actually August as he already was in 2021, but rather August from the future who was somehow transported back in time. Assuming that’s the case, then this August has already created the Godspeeds even if he can’t remember it. But if the “good” Godspeeds kill him, they can prevent him from enacting his plan and would presumably be more free to live their lives, whatever that might look like

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I’ve heard that a CW/Space Jam cross-promotional ad appeared. Is there a video of it somewhere? Also, I hope I’m on the right thread for today’s episode.

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I am guessing that Kramer is either a meta, perhaps the same abilitiy as Adam, or just got really lucky and survived. Either way, I think she’s going to give Adam a hotshot of the cure. And if she is a meta, I wouldn’t be surprised if she opts for the cure as well.

I was half expecting Impulse was going to replace XS since she got Thawned out of her timeline.

Diggle’s appearance on S&L might also confirm it’s place in the timeline.

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Barely. There’s a brief promo for Flash’s 150th episode of Barry dancing around from an earlier episode, and a couple of the Space Jam characters are also dancing in STAR Labs, but that’s all there is. They might air something more tomorrow night during the episode, though I have no idea if that’s the case

Not sure which episode you mean since nothing’s airing today. This is for last week’s Flash episode, since it was the only new Arrowverse episode from last week. The thread for this week’s episode, including Flash’s 150th, will be going up Thursday night :slightly_smiling_face:

She’s definitely the kind of person who’d go for a forceful approach like that. Utilizing the cure could be a quick way to wrap up this arc, which they’ll probably need since they’ll only have a few minutes in each of these last 2 episodes to do so

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Nuts, sorry for my mistake.

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