Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 23: June 20-22 Episodes


Whether it’s taking in a major twist, gearing up for a season finale, putting the focus on a side character or just taking a stroll down memory lane, the Arrowverse offered a bit of everything this week, and we’re back to break it all down here at the Couch Club. As the Legends mourned Sara’s apparent death, Behrad formed a desperate plan to keep her from ever being kidnapped, Ryan prepared to hand the Batwoman mantle back to a seemingly recovering Kate, Allegra took center stage on The Flash as her deadly cousin, Ultraviolet, resurfaced in Central City and Superman & Lois focused on flashbacks to Clark’s early days in Metropolis as Superman.

Legends of Tomorrow – “Back to the Finale: Part II”

  • Are you curious to see what other powers Sara gained from her alien merger, or are you hoping she goes back to fully human ASAP after having already gotten powers last season?
  • Would you prefer to see Bishop have survived despite his consciousness not fully uploading to the cloud, or would you rather see a new big bad for the rest of the season?

Batwoman – “Kane, Kate”

  • Many of us have been working under the assumption that Kate’s memory would be restored by the end of the season, but this episode provided a harsh reminder that we might actually be stuck with Circe in the long run. With just one episode left in the season, do you think we’ll finally be getting Kate back or is Circe here to stay?

The Flash – “Rayo de Luz”

  • With Esperanza now set to regain her voice, could we end up seeing a redemption for her? Would you even want to perhaps see her join Team Flash down the line?

Superman & Lois – “A Brief Reminiscence In-Between Cataclysmic Events”

  • Do you think actually managed to turn Clark at the end of the episode, or is he able to resist the effects and just waiting for the right moment to strike?
Which episode from this week was your favorite?
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “Back to the Finale: Part II”
  • Batwoman – “Kane, Kate”
  • The Flash – “Rayo de Luz”
  • Superman & Lois – “A Brief Reminiscence In-Between Cataclysmic Events”

0 voters

While I’m sure they’ll look cool in combat, otherwise I can’t say I’m too excited to see this particular part of Sara’s arc progress. I was fine w/ her having the ability to see briefly into the future last year considering that it wasn’t permanent, and it also came w/ the tradeoff of her being blind. I guess this also does come w/ the tradeoff of her not being the original Sara, but it’s not like that’s gonna affect her in a fight like her blindness did. The potentially interesting part of this arc will come from her existential crisis over being a clone, seeing how the team reacts to it and having Ava help her work through her understandable problems w/ it. But w/ instant healing and being bulletproof (as per the teaser for the next episode), she’s just gonna absolutely dominate any fight she gets into. Again, that could be kinda cool to see for a little bit, but it’d get old pretty fast. I still think there’s a chance this can be undone even w/ Bishop’s technology seemingly out of the picture, but w/ no immediate alternatives, it’s probably gonna be a while before the Legends find a way to at least make Sara fully human again. I can’t say that I’m looking forward to this being prolonged, but that’s also the great thing about Legends’ ensemble status. If one character’s arc isn’t really working, it probably won’t get a ton of screentime anyway, so you can just focus more on the other characters until things get better

Even though I hate him for what he did to Sara, I also can’t quite say I want him gone just yet. If he really did die in this episode, then it’d just feel like he bowed out too quickly. After all, we haven’t even seen him go up against the full Legends yet, so there’s definitely some unfinished business in that regard. I could see this being a situation where most of his consciousness got uploaded, just not the entire thing. Maybe that last 6% or so of it that didn’t make it in was just his affinity for singing all the time. He’d still be mostly the same, but w/out the constant breaking into song. And he’d have to have some sort of backup body stashed away somewhere since he wouldn’t be able to print a new one like he has before, which would make him even more desperate since he’d finally be mortal. Plus I feel like we still don’t know much about his backstory and what really makes him tick beyond the surface level stuff, which are definitely elements needed for a good villain. Though I would dread thinking about all the other ways he could still hurt Sara and the rest of the Legends, I also have to admit that I’ve enjoyed seeing Raffi Barsoumian in the role, as it just looks like he’s been having a lot of fun w/ it. That kind of charisma is always great to see, especially on a show like this, so I can’t quite say I wanna see him gone just yet

I do still think that Kate won’t end up getting erased completely and that she’ll be restored by the end of the finale, but I do think this drastically reduces the odds that she’ll stick around after this point. Between all the time she’s now spent as Circe and her probably still being able to remember what Circe did in her body, she might feel that she can’t stick around. I could definitely see them giving her a line like, “I know I’m Kate Kane, but I don’t even know who Kate Kane is anymore,” and so she leaves Gotham to go find herself again or something, leaving the door open for future guest appearances. Plus, leaving Circe intact would also essentially be erasing Kate, and while that’s not exactly the same as killing her, I feel like it’d be close enough to that. It’s been over a year since Caroline Dries specifically promised not to kill off Kate and buy into the “bury your gays” trope, which she’s still help up so far. But Circe remaining in control would effectively feel like killing off Kate’s mind and soul, so it really wouldn’t feel like she was alive if some other personality was in control of her body. Regardless of what happens in the finale, I just know that I’m really looking forward to seeing Ryan fully earn sole possession of the Batsuit along w/ Luke’s debut as Batwing

Given the show’s track record, I can definitely see Esperanza getting fully redeemed (or at least close to it), and it could be cool to see her go down a more heroic route. After 2 years of her battling w/ Allegra, I think there’s some real potential for them in working together for a chance, especially after seeing glimpses of that here. We know she still cares about her cousin despite so much of what she’s said, and w/ Allegra so determined to save her, I think this route would only make sense. Even though Allegra is now more powerful than ever, Esperanza is still the more experienced one who could continue to teach her how to hone her powers. Of course w/ proper training, it’s certainly possible that Allegra could also become more powerful than her cousin given that huge outburst at the end of their fight, but that’d just make things even better. Now I have no idea if we’re even gonna see Esperanza again, let alone if she could become a regular presence on the show, but if she does, they’ll have to work to make sure she doesn’t just feel like another Frost – a snarky badass w/ an edge. I’m sure that’d at least be part of her character, but as long as she doesn’t feel like Frost w/ light powers, then she’d probably fit right in. I know I’m getting ahead of myself as usual, but that’s half the fun of this

I think this could end up being a little bit of both. As powerful as he is, Supes certainly isn’t gonna be brainwashed, or whatever that was exactly, easily. And while I’m sure Edge knows that, there could still be some of that classic villain overconfidence that blinds him to not seeing that Clark isn’t fully turned. But while I think there’s a real chance that he’s able to resist much more than the other hosts, that doesn’t mean he’d be able to hold out forever. He might be doing so as best he can all while still knowing that he’s gonna crack eventually, and hoping that in the extra time he’s able to buy for himself, his family can come up w/ a plan to save him. This could ultimately be an effective way to show that his love for his family goes beyond just feeling that he has to protect them, but also in having enough confidence that they can step up to the plate and deliver in situations like this. He certainly knows that they’re not just gonna sit back and accept defeat, and so that could be the real difference-maker in giving him enough strength to keep fighting this influence for just long enough


I’m torn still. Now that we know she is 100% a clone I… I just don’t know. She and Ava are gonna have a Talk. Depending on how that is handled maybe I’ll have a better opinion. Though, Sara with a healing factor could be a lot of fun. I wonder if they could use her blood to somehow fix Constantine? Like heal his magic or something? I don’t know just a random thought.

I assume he’ll be back at some point. But I do like these two part big bad seasons. Makes it all feel so much shorter and concise.

Clark is Clark. I’m sure he’ll be fine. If only he had a cousin who could snap him out of it or something… J/K never mind. :laughing:

But, seriously, Talk-no-Jutsu will work wonders for Clark. Lois and family will talk him down. Steel will show up and shoot him. Grandpa will shoot him too. I’m sure it’ll all be fine.

I will say that I am not a huge Superman fan but I am a huge Dork Clark Kent fan. He’s adorable. Adds so much depth to his character.

I haven’t watched Flash or Batwoman yet. I’ll do that tomorrow and I’ll post my thoughts then. :smiley:

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I definitely agree w/ you that I’m still conflicted about this, but I am oddly looking forward to seeing how they handle this. I don’t expect Ava to immediately have something to say that’ll allow Sara to make peace w/ this, but I do feel that in the long run, she’ll absolutely be the difference maker in that regard. Having them both console the other through clone-related crises sounds absurd on paper (and is still kinda absurd in practice), but it’ll absolutely work w/ the tone of the show and further cement them as an amazing couple

Random, but you could be onto something. I still remember them talking about alien magic at the start of the season, but I feel like that hasn’t really been touched on since. But w/ Sara now being easily the most powerful Legend, it stands to reason that she might not be limited to just helping herself. And I’m sure if she has a chance to help anyone else on her team, she’d gladly jump at it so as to make this new version of herself feel more justified

I definitely agree when it comes to the usual 20±episode seasons, but w/ Legends still being 15 episodes, it leaves them in a more unique situation. Not as much time as the other shows, but still more time than a typical-half season. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing another big bad, but I also feel like the writers are still creative enough to make this work over the course of the whole season. I ultimately trust them to do what they feel is right, and it’s nice to have that kind of trust in a show’s writers

Yep, not a single Kryptonian relative other than his evil half-brother…anyway :supergirl_cw:

Those kryptonite weapons will definitely come in handy now

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I mean she basically had this talk with Spooner in the past already. “What if you can help them?” But yes, their talk should be interesting.

And especially when John is the one who saved her last time she died. I don’t remember if that favor has been repaid or not.

Oh, I agree 100% with that. Legends is the only show I really trust.

I wonder what else Jonathan stole from Steel’s van? Those will be useful too.

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I’m pretty sure that’s why John teamed up w/ the Legends in the 1st place. John needed their help when he tried exorcising Mallus out of a young Nora Darhk and she said Sara’s name, so I’m pretty sure that was him collecting on that debt. Of course now that John’s been an unofficial Legends for a few years now, they’re well past the point of keeping track of favors, which is always nice to see

Did he manage to get any of JHI’s guns out of the van? I know he didn’t grab any the 1st time, and I’d figure after being a second away from death, he’d stay far away from it afterwards

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Wasn’t that the gun he used when the ‘Kryptonians’ attacked the house? I thought later that Jordan said Jon had grabbed more than one.

Oh, right! That seems so long ago now. I forgot about it.

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Oh yeah, I already forgot about that. I definitely can’t remember when he managed to grab it, but it’s certainly good that he did. We’ve already seen it be effective against Kryptonians, it’s just too bad he didn’t have it on him when “Uncle Morgan” came by to visit

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I hope there is some exploration of her new powers from being merged with an alien. We need to see the journey she h=need to make to show what it means to be human. Having the healing factor helps when she is fighting in battels, but she may rely on it too much like a certain Marvelous character. I would not want her to think she was bulletproof and she does not know yet the extent of this power. I hope that she does not turn into a monster but rather develops each power as the season moves along. Maybe Spooner can talk with the alien within and be able to understand what Sara may be going through soon. I just hope Sara is upfront with everyone and does not try to hide what happenned to her, as we have seen how well it goes to keep secrets from the rest of the team and then the stuff hits the fan.

I don’t know about Bishop. To me, he was an interesting character, but did not strike me as one of the better Big Bads. I would like to see flashbacks to show what happenned to Earth in the future that caused him to survive and create the Ava clones. We have seen that fututre where there were a lot of Avas, but maybe he wanted to change it to be a Earth populated by Saras instead.
My thoughts are that Kayla may become the big bad in the second half. They left her (though not their fault) nd she may have had to fight to survive. She may want vengeance and be jealous that Mick chose Sara over her. Over time she may develop resentment. Just my thoughts.

I actually think she is more interesting as Circe now. The heel turn was unexpected, and she seems to revel in the pain and misery she causes, as well as being very strategic about it, even fooling those closest to Kate. This way they could keep the character without us wondering why there needs to be two Batwomen. I did like her scratching the bat emblem making her almost like the evil side of the coin. I think in the finale we may see a glimpse of Kate still inside, but I would prefer for her to stay Circe and see how the team works when they have to fight what used to be one of their closest allies.

Part of me thinks she seems to be duplicating Allegra’s powers, so it would not be an unique add to the show. I also do not care abot the character as much and maybe they just have not shown me enough flashbacks of her and Allegra when they were younger and helping each other out. All I have seen from her is an assassin who mentions they were once close but I do not yet fee that connection. If they develop her character more, I would want to see her join Team Flash, but right now I just di not know as much about her as I do Allegra. Though seeing the friction between Sara and Esperanza if she is allowed t stay would be interesting. I also enjoyed their fighting styles.

I am not yet convinced that he turned Clark yet. Yes his eyes went red, but he was also in pain from the ray that Morgan Edge was inflicting on him. I did enjoy seeing the walk through Clark’s memories as we got to see a different origin story where he ran away to the Fortress when his dad died and then was gone for years to perform training with Jor El (how did they explain that and when he returned?) ALso enjoyed his meeting with Perry and Lois, kinda in between the panels of an earlier episode. Seeing him with his mom again lso showed why MArtha is so important.
I see how Morgan was manipulating him and threatened his family, but I believe he has a family in this world which will make the difference. Their memory and their ability to talk him out of the brainwashing will turn the battle On John’s earth, JOhn was married to Lois and we do not know if Clark had anyone so maybe he felt even more alone (sorry Kara). This may have made him easier to turn to the dark side to side with Kryptonians whereas he has human family here.

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For my more in-depth analysis of this week’s Legends of Tomorrow, visit my Legendary Islan of Misfits here…

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Ok, I’m fully caught up to last week now.

I like the Circe dynamic going on right now. It would be nice to get Kate back but a combo of the two wouldn’t be bad. A chaotic good Batwoman? I liked her scratching off part of the Bat Symbol, gave me a Red Hood vibe. She could be the Black Sheep of the family.

I think this is too close to Allegra’s powers to be useful to the team. Unless, with Allegra’s new power level up, we discover their powers do different things. But right now Esperanza has the same powers as Allegra and the same assassin/fight training as Sue. It’d be duplicating too much that the team has already.

But maybe adding her to the Team Flash Bench? For crossovers and big bad take downs? She’d be a good addition for an occasional appearance. I am happy to see her get her voice back, though. But even if she gets redeemed or not, her voice is a good first step.


said right moment should be good. especially if he really sells being turned.


Batwoman - My expectation has always been some sort of restoration of Kate, but Ryan continues to be Batwoman.


I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like this play out, though it would also worry me that the alien w/in could take over like it did w/ “Amelia,” even if just temporarily

I like this idea! I feel like there’s a good chance she’s still alive, and between being left behind and the chaos that Sara already brought to her operation, she might’ve reached her breaking point w/ the Legends. Perhaps we could see a fight of ex-fiances w/ her and Gary?

2 personalities living in 1 body, scratches on a previously “good” symbol…so is Circe just the new Two-Face? :two_facehappyhqtas:

Come to think of it, have we seen any flashbacks to this time? I can’t remember any, and even if there’s been at least 1, I guess it wouldn’t have made enough of an impact to be remembered. I do agree that getting to see even just glimpses of that period of their lives would definitely make the connection more impactful than just hearing about it

It’d definitely be nice to see her w/out that mask for once, especially w/ the symbolism of being able to leave her life as Ultraviolet behind


LoT - I also hope that Sara will be open about a human alien hybrid clone. Other than the rapid healing, there might be strength, amped sight, hearing, etc. I am currently speculating no major transformations.

Potential big bads for the B half:

  • abandoned Kayla
  • incompleted uploaded Bishop

They still have a few more aliens to clean up i suspect.

S&L thought: if Supes does turn, then I look forward to Lois applying True Love’s Kiss to bring him back.

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