Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 16: Legends of Tomorrow Season Premiere

SPOILER ALERT!

Did someone say time travel? That’s right, our favorite band of misfits are finally back and ready for some extraterrestrial havoc throughout history in season 6! Welcome back to the Arrowverse Couch Club, where we’re highlighting the season premiere of Legends of Tomorrow. Sara has been abducted by aliens, and so the Legends need to pull out every trick in the book in order to find their captain and prepare for the latest threat to the timeline. And not only did the Legends return to grace our screens again, but the Arrowverse was in full force this week with five new episodes! Ryan fought to both save Angelique and protect her identity on Batwoman, the Pierce family had to deal with losing their powers on Black Lightning, Frost had her day in court to address her previous crimes on The Flash and Brainy and Nia wrapped up their own time-traveling adventure in Midvale on Supergirl.

Legends of Tomorrow – “Ground Control to Sara Lance”

  • What were your first impressions of the newest (soon-to-be) Legend, Esperanza Cruz, a.k.a. Spooner?
  • Were you a fan of the retcon that Gary’s been an alien this whole time?

Batwoman – “Initiate Self-Destruct”

  • Why do you think Sophie didn’t reveal that she knows Ryan is Batwoman?

Black Lightning – “The Book of Reunification: Chapter One”

  • Between electrocuting herself and going back to the ionosphere, Jen’s actions this week were riskier than ever, which is saying a lot for her. Was she justified in taking such drastic actions to restore her powers, or should she have listened to her family and stayed grounded?

The Flash – “The People V. Killer Frost”

  • Did you think it was a good call to (seemingly) write Frost off the show entirely?

Supergirl – “Prom Again!”

  • Now that they’ve completed their time-traveling adventure and have the proper experience, should Nia and Brainy join the Legends after Supergirl ends?
Which episode was your favorite from this week?
  • Legends of Tomorrow – “Ground Control to Sara Lance”
  • Batwoman – “Initiate Self-Destruct”
  • Black Lightning – “The Book of Reunification: Chapter One”
  • The Flash – “The People V. Killer Frost”
  • Supergirl – “Prom Again!”

0 voters

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Well she’s already proved that she’s capable of capturing 2 Legends, so I’d say she made a great 1st impression! I love that the show is continuing to bring in characters that are complete outsiders, as Spooner seems like she’s probably been living outside of “normal” society for years now. She seems like the kind of person who has become almost completely untrusting of all other people and will almost certainly be hostile toward the Legends at every turn in the early season episodes, but in a fun way. Her distrust of people in general and hesitancy to help the team also reminds me of Zari 1.0 when she first stepped onto the scene, and I have little doubt that her, Spooner will ultimately warm up to these time-traveling weirdos by the end of the season

And beyond the humorous side to her character, I think there’s also a lot of potential to get some real emotion out of her as well. This is someone who was abducted and experimented on by aliens as a kid, and it left her so traumatized that she went on to become what looked like basically a hermit. It’s a really sad story when you think about it for even just a bit, but there’s also a great chance that she could end up healing in her own way by being a part of the team. She’ll have a chance to confront her fears head-on by working to stop all these aliens, and while it certainly won’t be easy, I’m optimistic that it’ll prove to be helpful for her over the course of the season

It’s gonna take some time to really sink in, but so far I think it’s a great move! It certainly explains his odd behaviors over the years and why he always seemed off. Granted, that kind of behavior really isn’t that out of place on Legends, but now knowing that he’s been an alien falling in love w/ and trying to learn human customs definitely adds some extra (good) weirdness onto his character not just now, but in previous seasons as well. Of course w/ a big retcon like this, there’s also the question of whether this presents any continuity errors, though I suppose that only truly applies to him in season 5 after Crisis. If there are any contradictions to this reveal from season 3 or 4, you can always just chalk it up to something from pre-Crisis that’s since been wiped away. The only time I can really remember seeing him w/out his glasses is from season 4 when he was manipulated by Neron and had that whole “Gary Green is all the man we need” thing going. Beyond possibly being wiped out by Crisis, though, you could also explain him not reverting back to his alien form due to Neron’s magic keeping his human appearance. I’ve also gotta say that those glasses must be incredibly thorough in making him appear to be human, otherwise Constantine would’ve caught onto something when they slept together. Granted, I have to figure there’s a good chance John wasn’t completely sober during those hookups, but no amount of alcohol could completely erase the sight of a skinny dweeb like Gary suddenly changing into a hideous alien creature, so I have to assume that didn’t actually happen

I was definitely surprised by this move since I was so focused on all the ways this situation could’ve played out after Sophie told Batwoman she knew her identity. But in keeping her cards close to the chest for now, I think this may show that Sophie now cares more about Ryan than she’d like to admit. I’m thinking back to last season when Mary found out that Kate was Batwoman, but didn’t actually tell her until a few episodes later. In that case, Mary had hoped that Kate would ultimately trust her enough to actually confide in her, and I can’t help but wonder if something similar is happening here. Perhaps Sophie wants Ryan to be able to prove herself enough so that Ryan will actually trust her. Though if that is the case, Sophie will be waiting quite a while since she doesn’t realize just how big Ryan’s grudge against her goes

Or perhaps this could be a situation where Sophie feels that if she reveals to Ryan and the rest of the team that she knows, she’ll effectively be a full member of Team Bat, which is probably something she’s not quite ready for. Though I still think she’ll leave the Crows by the end of the season, she’s obviously not quite there yet, and if she’s in a position where she has more loyalty to Team Bat than to the Crows, she’ll have to fully confront that, which would change so much of what she’s believed and held onto for years now. Come to think of it, as I’m typing this theory out and realizing it more, I think I actually like it more than my first one

From a logical perspective, I’d certainly argue that she should’ve been more patient in waiting for a solution to the powers problem, I also have to admit that it’s very much in character for her to have gone this far. She’s always been more impulsive and reckless than the rest of her family/team, so if anyone’s gonna go so far as to electrocute themselves, even w/ a backup plan in place, it’s her. But beyond that, I think she also made a good point about how desperate she is to hold onto her powers. As much as we know her family and friends will still treat her just as she was before, there’s no getting around the fact that Jen’s life can never be the same w/ this new appearance. Even in a world w/ metahumans, magic, aliens and more, this change is still just too much to everyone outside the immediate group, and so she’s stuck w/ the fact that she’s gonna have to live as a completely different person in public. We can only imagine just how drastic a change that would be to go through and what kind of toll it’d take on a person

While I’m not sure I can ever fully sympathize w/ the incredible risks she’s taking simply because of how likely they are to lead to another huge incident, I can at least still sympathize w/ her personal reasoning behind such decisions. I also appreciate that the writers are really taking advantage of the recasting and working it into the story in more ways than just explaining why she looks different and moving on. It’s just another reason why the show ending is such a shame. W/ several more seasons, I’m sure there’s plenty more compelling material we could’ve gotten from the new Jen, but at least we still managed to get the good stuff from this season

I know we’ve still got most of the season left and so there could be another development that gets Frost out of prison and back onto Team Flash, but I have absolutely no idea what that could be. Life in prison w/out the possibility of parole is pretty airtight, and so I’m left to believe that this is ultimately the show writing Frost off as a regular

I’ll be honest, I don’t know what the hell the writers are thinking w/ this move, and I’m legitimately pissed off that this is Frost’s fate. What exactly does this development improve on the show? How does this help anyone’s character? Yes, it was a selfless move by Frost, but she didn’t need to prove herself as a hero her. She had already done that in the last few years fighting alongside Flash. Were there really still people convinced she’s a villain who hadn’t made up for her crimes in season 3? If there are, I’d certainly like to remind them how she was being manipulated by Savitar, but I don’t actually think there are enough people (if any) who still felt that way. At the end of the day, Frost is no better off, Team Flash is left devastated and we’re all deprived of 1 of the best characters on this show. Even if they manage to keep Frost on screen by having Caitlin and others visit her in jail, we still won’t get to see her in any action scenes alongside the team, which absolutely sucks. I just completely fail to see any positives of this move, and I’d love to hear Eric Wallace or any of the other writers try to justify why they thought this was the right decision. Splitting up Caitlin and Frost was such a promising move that held so much potential, and now it just feels like that’s all been wiped away. And what do we have left on the show – the forces storyline w/ another “twist” where a mentor betrays Barry? That’s such a tired trope on this show, and I ultimately just feel like the early excitement this season generated in the 1st few episodes is just gone now

I’ve been seeing this theory/speculation circulating around for a while now, and I would 100% support it! Nia and Brainy are still 2 of my absolute favorite characters on the show, and considering they haven’t had as much time in the Arrowverse as characters like Kara, Alex, J’onn, Lena, etc., this would provide a great opportunity to further develop their characters and keep Supergirl’s legacy alive even after the show ends. Plus they’ve definitely got the right kind of chaotic energy that the Legends are known for, especially after these last 2 episodes, so I feel like they’d fit right in. Even if they couldn’t get fit in as regulars, I think at the very least they could have an arc similar to Wally in season 3 where he was on for only a few episodes but still played a key role in taking down Mallus

But as much as I love the idea of those 2 (or even just 1 of them) shacking up on the Waverider, I would be a bit wary about them leaving National City permanently. I know that nothing can change the fact that Supergirl is ending this season and so we probably won’t get any major updates regarding what’s going on in National City after this season, but if Nia and Brainy were to leave, that also gives Kara less of a reason to stay. I bring this up because of the speculation that the show could end by taking a cue from the comics and having Kara leave the present to go to the 31st century. I absolutely don’t want the show to end this way because I feel like it’d be a betrayal of how much they’ve built up that National City in the present is Kara’s true home. Even if we’re only gonna get to see cameos of her going forward at most, we can still be secure knowing that she’s staying true to the same person she’s been this whole time and not suddenly doing a 180. She had a chance to go to the future at the end of season 3 and didn’t take it because she knows this is where she both needs and wants to be. So I guess Nia and Brainy leaving permanently could ultimately establish a trend of other characters leaving, and perhaps giving Kara more justification to make such a drastic move. Maybe just having them appear for a few episodes would ultimately be the best balance

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She seems really cool! Is she a new character or based off someone from the comics? I’m curious to see how the ‘antenna in her head’ thing plays out. Especially, since Gideon says there is nothing there.

It’s fascinating. But can totally be a Crisis retcon, so this is the season to do those things. I like how they added a reason for him to be Constantine’s assistant. He needed to learn the alien magic. It was a cute way to add to his character.

Because CW shows like characters who don’t communicate with the rest of the characters on the show?
But seriously, I really thought she was gonna barge in there and yell at them all. They four of them can get so much done together. And with this Jacob/Snakebite sideplot, I can’t imagine Sophie will stay a Crow much longer.

I am very confused by this. I guess it makes sense that they didn’t want Danielle to play two roles for forever. But they could have re-combined them. Or done something else. I get the importance of not allowing the cure to be used as a punishment. But at Frost’s expense? That’s a lot.

I love Legends. But I hope they don’t do this. Legends is a place for the characters who didn’t get a full chance in their own shows to have a space to be. To get their character arcs. Brainy and Nia have done so much in Supergirl. Not to mention, Brainy is from the future and Nia has a great-great-child in the future. Neither of them should be time traveling.

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I’ve been disappointed with Batwoman this season, but I think it’s the big recasting. Black Lighting just doesn’t improve to me and it’s the worst season yet. Supergirl has been really strong this season. Flash is losing some luster but still really good. Legends is such a treat though, especially since the addition of Constantine. Looking forward to seeing what Cruz brings…

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She seems to be another original character, though maybe a comics connection could be revealed later in the season. It’d definitely be pretty interesting if, like @biff_pow brought up in the WAL, she turns out to be Jinny Hex or someone else related to Jonah. The country connection would seem to make it a possibility :cowboy_hat_face:

She’s clearly got a device in her head, otherwise John’s spell wouldn’t have worked. But it’s gotta be lodged in there preeeety deep

Oh damn, I didn’t even think about that! Yeah, that really does make the retcon even deeper. It’d be interesting to see them touch on that when Constantine and Gary are reunited

It’s just not worth such a huge loss. If Kramer never came onto the show, none of this would be necessary. Part of me wants to not be so quick to judge, but my initial impression is that this arc was just completely unnecessary and only served to harm the show

And yet they have, especially Brainy. He’s already been living outside of his time w/ Winn doing the same in his place. And while Nia probably shouldn’t meet Nura for the sake of the timeline, it’d stand to reason that pretty much everyone is gonna have descendants in general, so just the fact that they exist shouldn’t necessarily disqualify someone from joining the team imo

It’s definitely not as good as last season, but I’ve still been enjoying the show a lot. The fact that it had such a strong supporting cast, especially Alice, that returned entirely definitely helped tremendously

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Honestly, for me right now, Alice is the best part of that show. I can’t wait to see what the Kate Kane reveal will do to her.

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I’m a little surprised she didn’t recognize Kate already just from staring right into her eyes a couple times. I have to figure that’ll still happen next week when “Circe” is interrogating her

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Yeah, I thought they were going to do that. But I guess they are waiting a bit for that.

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I liked the newest Legend, Esperanza Cruz. She is off enough to fit right in with this lovable group of misfits, I also think, as this show has shown with its character development of so many underused characters (I am looking t you Mick!) that she may be paranoid now and want to be away from people, but they will slowly warm her up to being with a part of this family. Her firepower is impressive and she did not even flinch when drinking parts of Gary (eeew, what is it with John or whoever is performing magic drinking yucky liquids?), so I think she will fit right in. You know, they introduce characters and I have not really had a bad one yet. It reminds me when Behrad just showed up when they changed the timeline and it felt like he always was part of the group.

You know, it does explain a lot to say Gary has been an alien in disguise all this time. He always seemed odd, but we all chalked it up to him being a ittle nerdy and shy but starstruck by the Legends. Now, it makes more sense why he was enamored of them, and how he basically ignored his mission. It helps drive the story this season where they abducted Sara because he basically failed in his mission. My problem though is that he was engaged to his boss, but seemed not too upset when Sara just knocked her out of the ship into space. Maybe Gary did not feel the same way but was pressured into it by his boss? In space, no one can hear you scream “harrassment”! I do agree with the other comments here about trying to remember seeing him without glasses, as this could cause issues, but as you mention, this could be a post-crisis change (or maybe earlier with flashpoint? depends on when this switch occurred). I’m glad because it adds another level to his character than just someone who seems to screw up (but what Legend hasn’t). In his alien form he may even be able to provide strength behind his brains. I do like that he does not eat humans…anymore.

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I think she has seen the good that Batwoman can do, slightly outside of the law, and she does not want to impact that. If her identity is made public, then she may be arrested by the Crows and this does not do anyone any good. I think she wants to give Batwoman the benefit of the doubt and see if she will be honest with her about who she is. If Batwoman will trust her enough to share her identity, then Sophie would make more of an ally. If she revealed to her that she figured it out, Batwoman may decide to hide or deny it, and may push her away to keep her from doing anything with it. If it happens naturally and she tells Sophie, then that means she sees her more of an ally. Right now Ryan is not a big fan of the Crows and is distrustful of them, but Sophie may be OK. I just hope they do not drag it out too long, and they learn to work together. Maybe this will be like a Gordon/Batman situation where we pretty much knows Gordon knows the secret identity but chooses not to let him know as he wants to continue dealing with the Bat and now cause any issues. I wonder if she thinks if Batwoman knows she knows she would then worry she is in more danger.

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Personally, I am surprised it worked. The nullifier powers seemed to knock everyone out, so I was surprised she would think she could just jump start her powers again. Wouldn’t the emitter just knock them out again?
She does seem to take a lot of risks, but if you think about it, she just had her appearance change drastically. She has to go by a new name. The powers were the only thing that gave her some sense of normalcy and common link to her old self and even that was gone. I think that was why she was more into getting them back than anyone else.
I also enjoyed the discussion between Anissa and Grace, as Grace likes not having powers and Anissa wants hers back. This may cause some friction but I hope they work it out. When the show started I wasn’t sure they were right for each other, but they have since developed the characters and their relationship more and I want it to continue. I could see Grace wanting to be rid of her powers as she had hid as a shape shifter and everytime she has gone out with Thunder she gets hurt or they have people after them for one reason or another. Anissa seems more the activist type who wants to actively get out there and help others and feels her powers were a blessing more than a curse. Plus, hey she just got that new suit!

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As much as I do not like to see her off the show, I think it shows the character growth for her from villain to hero on this show, much in the way I like how they wrote Captain Cold (I miss Wentworth!) where he was a bad guy but with a code, and then he (spoiler alert) sacrificed himself on the Legends of Tomorrow show for his friends. Hmmm, two selfless cold former villains…
I loved the fact that Caitlin was the emotional, reckless one while Frost was calm and trying to do this the right way. The fact that she considered all other metas above herself and the fact that if she was forced to take the cure that any meta that stepped out of line would have to do the same, so she took that option off the table was great. Sad, but great. I like the callback to the meta with the eye in the court room and how he thanked her for what she did.
MY feeling is that although Kramer left and we got the backstory on why she hates metas even those who seem heroic but are really bad, is that she will not let this loss go. She seemed very gung ho just to leave. And the fact that Joe tells her he respects her but she needs to watch what side of the line she is on, it would not surprise me to see her again trying to do something against metas.
I think we will still see Frost from time to time, with visits to prison. I also think there is the opportunity for a great prison riot episode, but she calmly helps the guards and does not try to escape or take part.
Another option (but maybe less so knowing WB and how they don’t like movies and shows having same characters) is a Suicide Squad on this show. She could be part of it and released to help out on missions She cannot reduce her sentence so no incentive there, but maybe there is something they can offer like accomodations in prison or just the opportunity to do good. I think Danielle Panabaker did an amazing job on this episode with the differences she had to play.

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Finally, I do not watch Supergirl, but I like the connectedness where Ava on Legends tries to call the DEO as their expertise is aliens. I assume the destruction of the DEO happenned on an episode of Supergirl by the terrorist group mentioned, but could someone confirm?

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For my additional thoughts on Legends, here is my weekly summary for my #legendaryislandofmisfits

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Always psyched for more Legends. And now I’ve met peeps who love it more than me… it makes me swoon.

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Yeah, that was basically the impression I got, too. I figure we’ll probably get more details on that before long. Maybe it was an arranged marriage or something similar?

Is it bad that a part of me desperately wants to know how many humans Gary’s eaten and whether he’s eaten anyone famous?

That’s a pretty interesting connection. For as much as Jacob has been the Gordon of this show (leader of Gotham’s police force), a status quo like this could end up shifting Sophie more toward that kind of role. Although I do agree w/ you and hope that it doesn’t last too much longer. I’d ultimately rather see Sophie getting to work w/ Ryan when she’s fully in the know than continuing to be coy about it like this for too long

I guess the emitter only works for nullifying powers at a certain level, and between electrocuting herself and going back to the ionosphere, it seems like Jen’s super-charging her powers in an attempt to get them back. I feel like if she did that at normal strength, her powers would go through the roof to truly dangerous levels, but when she’s just trying to get back to what she already had, I guess it just balances out better

You and me both. I know couples just agree about everything and never have any problems aren’t gonna be as interesting to watch, but I’ve gotten the sense that the arguments Anissa and Grace have had this season are a little too manufactured. It almost feels like they’re trying to give them things to fight about for the sake of creating drama as opposed to letting any conflicts come from a more natural place. But at the end of the day, as long as they stay together, then that’s what’s important

That’s certainly similar in that I was also legitimately upset about Snart being killed off, but I feel like the difference here is that whereas Cold’s sacrifice was the payoff of his redemption arc over the course of a single season, we’ve already had multiple seasons of Frost proving herself as a hero. Snart had been making the transition from villain to anti-hero over the course of season 1 of Legends, but that was really what cemented him as a hero. We already knew that Frost was a redeemed hero before this arc, so I just still fail to see what it added to her character or the show in general

I know there’s still a legit chance of her returning, but I’m desperately hoping this is it for her. In just a few episodes, she managed to become 1 of my most hated characters in the entire series. Unless her return would somehow be playing a part in Frost’s release from prison (which I still don’t know how they’d manage), then she really just needs to stay in the state capital or wherever she’s based out of

That…would actually make this hurt notably less, to be honest. I’m not sure if Lyla is back in charge of ARGUS post-Crisis, but even she felt like she had to use Task Force X at 1 point, so it stands to reason that whoever’s in charge could end up reactivating the group. Hell, maybe Waller’s even alive post-Crisis. Whoever’s at the helm, I’ve been thinking the Arrowverse could use a new Suicide Squad after several years w/out 1 w/ all the new villains that have popped up since the group’s last appearance. Frost has been a part of the Squad in the comics and a couple animated movies, so it’d actually be a pretty fitting appearance. I doubt this would actually happen, and if it does they’d probably be limited to just Flash villains, but it’s actually pretty awesome to think about

Indeed it did. I think Legends only mentioned Rama Khan, but you could also say Leviathan destroyed it

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there was a theme of identity and being different in a lot of the episodes this week. Frost taking life imprisonment vs the cure. Lightning seeking a way to regain her abilities.

Nia’s final prom dress lewk only increased my already blossoming crush.

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