Arrowverse Couch Club Season Two, Week 11: Supergirl Season Premiere


It may be the beginning of the end for Supergirl this season, but the Girl of Steel is certainly looking to go out on a high note. Welcome back to the Arrowverse Couch Club where this week, we welcome Supergirl back to our screens for the premiere of the show’s final season! Though Leviathan is finally down, Lex and Lillian Luthor managed to escape and give Lex superhuman abilities, hoping to create a new world where “Everyone Loves Lexy,” and they mean everyone. With the danger as high as ever, Kara, Alex, Lena, Nia, Brainy, J’onn, Kelly and M’gann are the last hope for half the world’s population. And not to be forgotten, this week’s Batwoman saw the team trying to move on after Kate Kane’s “death” as the Black Mask finally showed his hidden face, and The Flash saw a new villain also show his mask in Central City, as Psych terrorized the citizens with their greatest fears.

Batwoman – “Rule #1

  • Though Black Mask is typically portrayed as a more straightforward, power-hungry crime boss, Batwoman’s version of Roman Sionis is attempting to give his character a little more depth through the reveal that not only does he have a daughter who died, but that he blames the Crows and the previous Batwoman for her death. Do you like this new addition to Black Mask’s story, or does it seem like a bad move to try and add some actual sympathy to such a sadistic villain?

The Flash – “Fear Me”

  • Are you hoping to see Caitlin and Frost stay separated permanently, or does it seem more like a fun experiment that should end with them merging back together soon?

Supergirl – “Rebirth”

  • After helping to take down Lex once and for all (for now) and even wiping his and Lillian’s minds of Kara’s secret identity, has Lena done enough to make up for her actions from last season or does she still need to be redeemed?
  • Now that we know Kelly hasn’t known about Kara’s secret identity this whole time, where do you stand on her being told? Should she have been told earlier, should they wait or is now about the right time? And is it OK for Alex to tell her a secret that isn’t technically hers to tell?
  • Do you think Kara will be stuck in the Phantom Zone for an extended arc, or will she just be back in National City by the end of next week’s episode?
What was your favorite episode this week?
  • Batwoman – “Rule #1
  • The Flash – “Fear Me”
  • Supergirl – “Rebirth”

0 voters

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While we obviously need to find out more regarding Sionis’ daughter and the exact circumstances of her death, I do find it interesting that his motivations are playing into what look to be the larger themes of this half of the season. Considering how twisted Sionis is and how many lives he has ruined and will continue to ruin, I know that the writers aren’t trying to elicit any (strong) sympathy for him and that we’ll continue to root for Team Bat. But not only does this still make Sionis a more interesting big bad, but having such a sick view on an issue that Ryan’s also trying to tackle will, I think, really enhance the overall story here. It’ll serve as a further reminder that while Ryan and Sionis may technically agree that Gotham is broken and desperately needs to be fixed, she’ll likely become even more confident in her desire to bring in more good to replace the bad she’s trying to take down. This is something that Ryan would be trying to do regardless of whether or not the False Face Society was posing a threat, but now they can help enhance that mission by running directly counter to it while also highlighting some warped similarities. It’s an interesting dichotomy that I think has a lot of potential for providing a strong base in 2B even as the season inevitably branches out to include other subplots, especially Kate’s looming return, though that’ll also very much tie into the main arc considering it’s Sionis who has her

I’m all for Caitlin and Frost to remain their own people indefinitely, as I think there’s a lot of potential for adding new material to their dynamic, but there is 1 detail about this that I’m still not sure about. Unless Caitlin’s post-Crisis history is different, I believe that Frost is still supposed to be the result of her father’s experiments on her when she was a child in an attempt to save her from the ALS gene. It’s been my understanding that, in a sense, Frost has essentially protected Caitlin from contracting ALS this whole time, as her father’s experiments were a success, even if they did have this drastic side effect. But now that Frost is separate, does that mean Caitlin is once again vulnerable to getting ALS? It would seem prudent for the team to be thorough about this and see if she’s still at risk. If she isn’t, then Frost should absolutely be free to be her own person, but if having them be merged is the only way to protect Caitlin from contracting and inevitably dying of ALS, then they would definitely need to be combined again. At this point, it seems like it’s up to the writers to determine whether or not Crisis changed any of this, or whether or not Frost living inside Caitlin for all these years altered her DNA to ensure that she’d never get the ALS gene again no matter what

Regardless of how they’d justify it, I certainly hope that this is a permanent change. Sure, it’ll mean Danielle Panabaker will have to spend more time filming, which would certainly be more tedious for scenes that have both Caitlin and Frost, but I think it’d really be worth the extra effort for a fun new dynamic. With neither of them bound at all by the other, they’re now more free to grow in different directions while still being there for each other just as before. Plus, it should also increase Team Flash’s efficiency, as they can rely on Frost’s powers in the field and Caitlin’s knowledge on comms without ever having to choose which person is more important in a given situation. All in all, I just really appreciate that despite losing Wells (seemingly) for good, the show is able to keep focusing on the other original Team Flash members and continue developing them in interesting ways

While I unfortunately can’t completely rule out Lena getting yet another arc where she’s pushed toward the dark side this season, I truly believe that she deserves to be recognized for the hero she is. Entrusting her to use Myriad was a big part of the plan, not only for how crucial it was in saving everyone, but for how much tension it helped cause between them last season. Though Kara and Lena’s fight was obviously never about Myriad, it still became a focal point for that conflict and thus carries even more emotional baggage. It would’ve been somewhat understandable, though certainly frustrating, if Kara wanted someone else to use Myriad in this case, but the fact that she put her faith in Lena, who promptly proceeded to do everything she needed, was a huge step forward for them. Add to that the fact that she had the anti-kryptonite suit ready to go and even used Myriad completely on her own 1 last time to do some more actual good, and there really shouldn’t be any doubt left that she’s completely redeemed herself. One of the many reasons Kara getting trapped in the Phantom Zone sucks is that it’ll stall the progress they’ve been making in their relationship, but as Lena continues to be a force for good, it’ll hopefully give Kara plenty to hear about for when she gets out. A secondhand account of what Lena (and everyone else) has been up to on Earth while she’s been away isn’t ideal, but at least Kara can still be caught up for when she inevitably comes back

My only issue w/ this part of the show is that it should’ve been made explicitly clear where Kelly stood on Kara’s identity a while ago. It was at the point where fans were constantly wondering if she was fully looped in, but at least now we know for sure. Anyway, considering that Alex and Kelly have been dating for about a year now, she’s been friends w/ about everyone else in the group for a little longer and is actively helping on missions, I think this is definitely a great time to make sure she knows everything. They’ve certainly taken more than enough time to ensure that she’s trustworthy, but it’s also not quite like it was w/ Lena where she only found out several years after the fact. I can’t imagine she’ll feel hurt that she wasn’t told earlier, and I actually wouldn’t be surprised if she even already knows

And while there’s certainly something to be said about waiting until Kara can weigh in herself, I doubt that any of the Super Friends would feel that Kara would have much reason to continue to withhold the secret from her any longer. Alex knows her sister better than anyone, and she knows how important it is to not keep Kelly in the dark anymore. It’s definitely a good look at how secrets can affect more than just the person they’re directly about, as keeping them for someone else often proves to be a burden when you factor in other relationships. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if this development causes Alex to do a little extra thinking about her relationship w/ Kelly and how she’s at a point where she doesn’t want to keep anything from her at all. And w/ such strong emotions swirling around that help her realize even more just how much she loves Kelly, maybe it could even lead to a proposal. I figure we’ve gotta be getting 1 this season, so why not have it be early?

I’ve been going back and forth on this considering there’s prior Arrowverse history to support both outcomes. On the one hand, I’m thinking of The Flash and how huge changes like Flashpoint or Barry being trapped in the speed force only lasted for a single episode each (though they felt like longer since they happened at the end of season finales). On the other hand, I’m thinking of season 7 of Arrow and how Oliver was in jail for a full 7 episodes, which, interestingly, is exactly how many episodes of Supergirl we’re getting before it goes on hiatus and Superman & Lois comes back. The writers’ comments about Kara’s arc in the 1st part of this season definitely seems to suggest that she’ll be trapped well beyond next week’s episode, but that could also be a bit of a misdirect meant to indicate that this initial arc will be very much impacted by her time in the Phantom Zone, even if it only ends up being 1 episode. I can also understand arguments for her having a short trip since it’s the last season, and thus that’ll give her more time to spend w/ the other characters, but also arguments for a longer trip to make it more meaningful, since it’s still the last season. I feel like it really could go either way, but I’ve got a slight inclination toward this lasting beyond just the next episode, though maybe that’s more so powered by my hope in the potential for this arc. Not only could we possibly get to see some iconic villains, but putting Kara through this test could go a long way in having her journey come full-circle and addressing much of the trauma she’s faced over these past years as Supergirl, even if it’s also likely to add onto it initially

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I don’t know too much about Black Mask but I do like the added depth. I just hope it doesn’t become a “I only did this for my daughter. I’m not actually a bad guy.” type of story. Because he just sawed off the legs of the person who didn’t bring him Sophie’s sister. There isn’t much sympathy to have for him now.

I hope they stay separate. It’ll be fun the flesh out the characters more. It’s a lot more work for Danielle Panabaker but we saw this work (for a shorter time period) on Legends. I’m sure something will happed where they will have to merge back together eventually. But I hope we get a while with both of them. It makes the team feel more than what it is now, after losing Wells.

I hope so. Kara and Lena could save the world overnight if they fully trusted each other. I know this is just a step in the right direction but I hope we don’t drive anymore wedges between them. Let them be friends. Let them work together.

Kelly has been helping so much with the team that I didn’t realize that she didn’t know. And even if it is Kara’s secret, I think Alex should tell her. Kelly has done everything for the team and is totally trustworthy. And Lena is right, Alex needs someone to talk to.

I’m going back and forth on this one. I’m assuming this was the original plan to cover Melissa’s maternity leave. But now that it isn’t necessary they could bring her back next week. But I hope they don’t. Let Kara deal with her fears of being trapped in the place she was before. And the convicts that her family put in there. It’ll be a great character arc.
On the flip side though, this is their last season. I want to see as much of Team Supergirl as I can before it ends.

Also, that’s a totally different Fortress from Superman and Lois… did Clark just bring Jordan in the back door and keep him there?

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I doubt Roman sees himself as someone who’s truly good, but w/ his “It’s Gotham that’s sadistic” line, he also seems to think he’s better than a total monster. The self-awareness only seems to go so far w/ him

Hell, this was pretty much exactly the case in that alternate timeline where Kara told Lena she’s Supergirl right away. Things might not have ended…great, but they could still take some lessons from it

I hadn’t actually thought about it like that, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s the case. I guess they’d really only need to account for a couple episodes of little to no Kara since they were already toward the end of the season before it got cut off, so the usual summer hiatus probably would’ve taken care of most of that leave under normal circumstances

Consistent w/ what SG’s shown before but not S&L. I’m desperate to hear an explanation of all these contradictions from 1 of the S&L producers or something


I am OK with adding another layer to a character as evil as Black Mask. It makes it more personal to him and he can be just as ruthless in enacting his revenge as he would be just being a sadistic bad guy. I did like the little bit of humor in his voice, but I hope they do not overdo it as he is supposed to be this extremely bad guy. I have enjoyed what I have seen so far of his character and I like we know of his other identity which makes it seem like a concerned businessman with the rise in crime in Gotham (some of which is his fault). Reminds me of the Lex Luthors or Morgan Edges who are rich and have a public side that is untouchable and then they have a really dirty nasty other side to them.
I did enjoy seeing Ryan take charge and her rules for the Bat team made sense and were more inclusive than Bruce’s rules were. It harkens back to everyone saying he had his rule (no killing) that may or may not have been broken with the Joker. These rules seem to focus on team and not individual, as well as not punitive if you break rule.
I liked the inclusion of a sister for Sophie. It gives her more backstory than she has had that does not have to do with the Kanes. Her sister’s heart seems to be in the right place even if she is mistrustful of authority. I hope to see more of her in future episodes, maybe helping a certain vigilante team if she does not trust official authority.
As much as I did not like Angelique, I did not feel she should have copped to the murder of the commissioner. Everyone knew the truth, but with no further evidence there was not much they could do. I know it was a way to show Black Mask’s control over people through fear, but she deserved something better. It will take her out for a while.
Tying Safiyah’s Enigma mind-wiper to the mystery of Kate Kane seems to keep the old connection to the story in, while moving on to Black Mask. It will be interesting when we get the full reveal of Kate again.

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I actually enjoy seeing them separate. It really gives the actress the better chance to play two different characters, and I was a little tired of them responding to their own thoughts in their heads. It can also show how Caitlin does as a normal human using her doctor skills and science know how and how she will not be able to save herself by turning to Frost so it adds a level of danger she did not have before when you knew Frost would come in last minute with the save. I also want to see more of Frost’s personality and she can help the team in the field while Caitlin helps from the lab. She can be the “gal in the chair” as well as the superhero.
I apologize but the guy with fear powers made me laugh when I saw him with the mask he was wearing and just general snobbish attitude. HIs mask reminded me of the Bat mask Bruce Wayne wore when he was reclaiming the Batman title and was training under Lady Shiva.
The big push in Cecile’s powers keep making her to be something much more than she was before. It seemed that push from the Top started it and now she just seems to keep getting more powerful. She is becoming a key asset as well as someone everyone confides in when they need advice to keep going.
Anyone else catch the Crows Security logo on the vans when the Flash went to help and the guards thought they saw a giant monster? Nice subtle crossover.
The return of the speed force in human form was a nice surprise, and to have her still take form of Barry’s mother is great. She is really is his mother in two ways, Barry’s real mom and the creator of his speed powers. I know people who have read the forces storyline may get more out of it than I will (I have not read recent storylines of the Flash), so this is all new and exciting for me.

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I don’t watch Supergirl, but I had read that this premiere explains why Kara has been missing and not mentioned on Superman and Lois because she was to have been trapped at this time in the zone.

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I actually think having a villain clearly enjoying themselves while they’re committing such horrific acts can usually make them even scarier, though I also understand the more straight-faced approach

I definitely wanna see more of her, though I’d be surprised to see her helping Team Bat directly on more than just an occasional basis. While I’m sure she’ll eventually see Batwoman in a better light, she really just seems like the kind of person who functions better when she’s not tied down to anything, and I’d imagine she’ll wanna keep jumping around Gotham to help the people in different capacities

After the episode where Ryan went to Angelique as Batwoman and she saw Angelique w/ another woman, I was convinced that she was cheating on Ryan and thus my opinion of her plummeted. But based on this episode, it seems like their fight in the episode before that one was actually a breakup, which I didn’t actually process as such at the time. Basically my feelings toward Angelique have gone back and forth, and while she certainly still has issues, I’m now viewing her more positively, though I also kinda feel like Ryan deserves/needs someone a little more secure in her life. I do hope she’s able to get back out there soon, though, because while we know she’s gay, it also sucks that she hasn’t been able to have a kiss w/ anyone so far this season

Yeah, it was kinda on the nose given his fear powers, though his look from the comics is also kinda silly

What’s cool is that even w/ Cecile on the team, no Chester or Allegra this week meant another episode where Team Flash was comprised entirely of season 1 characters. When I rewatched season 1 a few months ago, I realized that I completely forgot she was there for a couple episodes. I know she didn’t really start making a big impact on the show until a few years later, but it gave me more appreciation for her character given that they were able to keep her on after that much time

Definitely, and it raises more questions about the organization. I assumed they were only based in Gotham, but does this mean they’re stationed in other cities across the country? Maybe Gotham is the only city where they’re as strong, if not stronger, than the standard police force, but perhaps other cities have smaller groups of Crows stationed there to provide extra protection

While I’m still not a big fan of them adapting such a recent story, it’s also clear in the early goings how they’re changing things up. In the comics, there was no physical embodiment of the living Speed Force like “Nora” here. Instead of being the living avatars of the Strength and Sage Forces, Fuerza and Psych, respectively, were, like Barry, people who were gifted abilities through those forces. The way the powers manifest is still similar as far as I can tell, but this does add an interesting wrinkle to the story. Plus, if Fuerza and Psych, as the living avatars of their respective forces, are able to physically manifest their powers like metas typically do, I have to figure that when she’s recovered, “Nora” will also be able to use speed powers like the ultimate speedster. Just the thought of Barry being able to run alongside his mom (kinda) is amazing and I really hope they make that a thing this season!

That could be the reasoning, but none of the producers have actually said this, and even if they did, I still wouldn’t buy it. First, Clark could still talk about Kara in the past tense, as it’s not like this erases others’ memories of her as well. He could still talk about the boys’ Aunt Kara in a general sense w/out specifically saying that she’s gone. And even if the writers wanted to not spoil this reveal by not even hinting at her, they still could’ve at least come out and said something like, “We really want to have Kara be mentioned, but we can’t. We can’t say why just yet, but you’ll see when this new season of Supergirl starts.” But there’s been nothing like that, which continues to give me the impression that the S&L writers simply don’t care about Kara much at all

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Regarding question #1:

Do you like this new addition to Black Mask’s story, or does it seem like a bad move to try and add some actual sympathy to such a sadistic villain?

Showing sympathy for a villian isn’t bad in itself, if you ask me. It only provides depth to a character. I’d like to see where this story goes.
Regarding question #2:

Are you hoping to see Caitlin and Frost stay separated permanently, or does it seem more like a fun experiment that should end with them merging back together soon?

Leaving Caitlin and Frost separated at this point of the series, doesn’t feel right. It makes more sense to merge them back.
Regarding question #3 part-a:

  • After helping to take down Lex once and for all (for now) and…

She does more than just that. I like the sun lamp Lena’s left Supergirl. Lena still has more to redeem herself, not just to supergirl, but to the audience as well. She’s on the right track, though.
Question #3 part-b:

  • Now that we know Kelly hasn’t known about Kara’s secret identity this whole time, where do you stand on her being told?

Right! I’m glad finally that that question has been resolved. If we want Alex to be happy, Kelly will have to be told. Relationships don’t last with that big of a secret.
Question #3 part-c:

  • Do you think Kara will be stuck in the Phantom Zone for an extended arc, or will she just be back in National City by the end of next week’s episode?

I think Kara will be there for an episode or two. Not unlike the time she had to wear a full body suit last year when the atmosphere was poisoned with kryptonite. However, it’s also true (as @Row.Harper mentioned) that Melissa’s maternity leave will determine how long her Phantom Zone stay will be.
That’s my 3 cents.

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Batwoman - This Black Mask’s motivation is primarily revenge, which is its own sort of trope. That being said, it leaves plenty of room for being sadistic. I do like a Black Mask that can take the mask on and off.

Flash - It should be interesting to see how the Caitlin and Frost separation plays out. I am anticipating staying apart. Because of the manhunt for Killer Frost, being combined is the perfect hiding place. Along with staying separate, Frost might surrender herself to show ‘the authorities’ she’s on her path of redemption.

Supergirl - a small arc of a couple of episodes would be alright. Lena is mostly redeemed, per the sidebar about working with Lena again. Telling Kelly makes sense; Kelly helps Alex grieve because they don’t yet know Kara will be saved. Then we get another fresh take when someone finds out Kara is Supergirl.


Is it just because that’s the dynamic you’re more used to at this point or something else?

At this point, I feel like most fans are pretty much set in their opinion of Lena. People like me who still know she’s a hero aren’t gonna be swayed unless she really goes full evil, and the people who dislike her are still gonna fixate on her past misdeeds/mistakes

It’ll definitely allow him to further his agenda on 2 fronts, though my money’s on that mask getting seared to his face by the end of the season

Exactly, if Frost has to go on the run, they won’t have to worry about coming up w/ some sort of cover for Caitlin. But then again, that might not have even been necessary since I’m not really sure what her life is like outside of Team Flash and STAR Labs at this point

Right, I hadn’t thought about that. I don’t think we’ve had a big reveal of Kara’s identity since Lena found out, so I’m a little more excited for that now. Hopefully we actually see Alex telling Kelly instead of just cutting to a scene where she’s already been told

True, there is something creep about a villain enjoying his work like we would enjoy watching a CW show, I just want to make sure they do not swing too far in the other direction and make it silly. I am all for this, as Zsasz on Gotham was one of my favorites, and he was a killer who seemed to enjoy his line of work and held normal conversations while doing it.

OK, I can see what you are saying because she did seem against Batwoman as well when discussing authority figures. I could see her getting involved with a group so she is not so lone wolf to try to get what she is fighting for. Maybe they could even have the group she gets into get into trouble, making he distrust groups again, but require Bat team’s help?

You’re right! We have not seen her kiss anyone so far. I still feel Angelique was not right for her, but now that she is healthy we should see her get involved with someone.

I did not realize she had been on for that long. It would make sense to have a character be around long enough to end up as love interest for Joe West rather than just someone who shows up.
I just realized, where is their kid? I know a lot happens in an episode, but I cannot remember the last time we heard the baby or heard a reference to the child. Seems the kid was a way to give Cecile powers and then after that they did not know what to do with the baby. Unless I missed it.

It seems like the vacuum of Batman leaving left an open spot for them to gain a foothold in Gotham. They may be smaller and support security elsewhere in the country, but Gotham had hit hard times where the Bat was gone and the police could not handle it, so they stepped in.

Thanks for filling me in. That is what I thought I had heard about the other forces that characters gained the powers from the forces. I guess maybe it was their way to be like the Lanterns and their numerous colors. It is almost like Barry has to fight gods and not just people with powers. People who draw from the forces may not be as strong as they do not have the full force at their disposal, while if these are the forces themselves then they have all the power. Also, I guess this week they sorta fought the bad guy and not just talked them out of fighting. Well it was Cecile pushing out the fear from everyone, but it was different.

Very cool idea!

As for Supergirl and S&L I am not sure of the behind the scenes action, I would have hoped they worked together like all the shows do. Unless they wanted to stand on their own to start before bringing in Supergirl sorta like how Superman was not on Supergirl for a while. I am sorry as I only see from the S&L side as I never got into Supergirl.

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I don’t think it’s so much that she distrusts groups, but rather the way groups, or individuals, go about their mission of trying to fix Gotham. I’m sure she’s partnering up w/ other people on a regular basis in her grassroots efforts, and she doesn’t necessarily seem like a lone wolf, just someone who doesn’t seem to have much love/trust for authority figures

Yeah, Jenna hasn’t really been brought up much at all. I just assume she’s always off w/ a babysitter/family member or something

That seems to be a good way of putting it thus far. Unlike how Savitar claimed to be the god of speed, Fuerza and Psych really live up to being the living embodiments of the Strength and Sage Forces

My issue w/ this comparison is that Supergirl was constantly name-dropping Superman in some capacity during its 1st season, and it’d be incredibly easy for S&L to give Kara just a few name-drops, but nothing so far


Yes. It’s the dynamic I’m more used to. And to be fair, I haven’t been keeping up with Flash as much as I’d like to.

I hope so. Maybe it was just me, or I’m confusing the Luthors as a whole instead of individually.

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