That makes sense. That was the word I was looking for, convoluted, thank you! I wasn’t aware the team wasn’t all that new either, haha. Goes to show what I know, right? I am very sorry you felt that way in general. As someone who has come to really become attached to some of these characters I think I’m starting to understand how some people, you included, might have felt.
Your comparison makes it easy to understand too. Comparing Wonder Woman to Teen Titans, I mean. Whereas a lot of stuff was different in her run I can definitely see how it kept true to Wonder Woman and who and what she was.
I guess DC wouldn’t have thought like that, just some passing thoughts, I guess.
If by "at the moment’ you mean Rebirth what inconsistencies are you referring to, if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve been on a reading hiatus for a bit and have just recently started catching up on all the stuff. I was optimistic about the future of the DCU until a little earlier when I looked up what this G5 was. I hope it’s good but I’m also worried, since I’m gonna miss all my faves if they’re not the stars of their own books anymore. Having other people taking up a hero’s mantle is one of my least favorite aspects of superheroes, and it’s something that’s turned me away from Marvel because of all the recent shenanigans.
And finally, thanks! I’m glad too. I would have been sad if this had turned nasty or anything. I just always love discussing this stuff, and don’t really have any IRL comic book fans in my life.
Oh, geez. I actually totally forgot that Flashpoint was actually the precursor to the New-52…
Let’s just hope that there’s not too many big reboots coming anytime soon and that this G5 stuff I’ve been reading about tonight isn’t that kind of thing. I’d be devastated.
Well, let me start of by saying that I’m a HUGE fan of the shared Universe, and by that I mean the idea that everything is connected. That doesn’t mean you have to have references all the time or constant crossovers but simply that it should feel like things could actually be part of the same universe. Kinda like how you might learn about a lot of different stuff concerning World War II over the years at different times, but if you take the time and sit down to line things up you can see that it fits. Same thing with the DC Universe. I have no problem seeing characters appearing in several books at the same time, as you can easily put them into some sort of order afterwards.
It is when you get two books featuring the same characters that are set at the exact same time I get a bit annoyed. Or when you have Action Comics 42 stating that it comes before Justice League 23 for instance and then have Justice League 23 stating it comes before Action Comics 42 (this is just an example, not an actual problem with those specific books)
During the recent Doom War storyline in Justice League we’ve seen a lot of inconsistencies which bug me as they kinda ruin the idea of the integrity of the shared universe. In Justice League we saw the Doom sigil pop up in the sky all over the universe at once, an event we also saw reflected in quite a number of different books. The problem is that some of those books featured characters that were present in the Justice League story. So you had Wonder Woman experiencing it in Justice League, while ALSO experiencing it in her own book AND Justice League Dark. So that means she was in three completely different locations at the same time. Other characters such as Batman and Flash faced similar problems. In Flash he was locked up when this happened, but he was present in Justice League and Batman had several stories going on at the same time that due to this could not be put in any kind of order without invalidating one or more of them.
The only real explanation that can be used for these discrepancies is that time or Hypertime was broken, making each character experience different things at the same time. However, IF they want to use that as the explanation it really needed to be shown as being part of the story, rather than having it be a case of the readers trying to find an excuse that might work.
It is not that these discrepancies ruin my enjoyment of the individual books, but as a major continuity fan and fan of the shared universe, having stories that can actually work together just elevates it for me, as that has always been a big part of what made me fall in love with the DC Universe and not just the characters.
I also fell in love with the continuity. Invasion! was my introduction to DC. I didn’t realize CoIE was a thing, I just saw all these awesome characters from the Superfriends. So I read it, and I’d see ads for other DC comics. I picked up a couple of those, and what do you know? They were talking about events in the Invasion! crossover.
It was very cool. It pretty much felt like I could pick up any DC title, and it’d fit within a much larger story. And for several years, the Post-Crisis universe was extremely cohesive. I became a back issue fiend, because every story built into the larger whole.
Over time, Image pulled away some of the major talent, and I think the industry hit a lull. Story quality went down and inconsistencies crept in. Then Zero Hour happened, Hal Jordan went crazy, Katar Hol became a weird Hawk God, Aquaman went stupid, the Legion became kids, and everything just kind of sucked for a while.
There’s been a few gems since then. But overall, there’s been very little long term, editorial oversight to get the ship back on course. I think New 52 could’ve been great. But I don’t think they had a course charted for the universe. Instead, it’s been a free for all.
Ahhhh okay! Now I understand! That totally makes sense! I took, just like you and @harley.333 am a lover of the continuity. I love how all the pieces fit together and understand how when you’re taken out of that feeling that everything fits together… Well, it can definitely become irksome.
That is weird though, that they chose to do that. I mean, surely they must have known it would have seemed weird to have chaarcters be at multiple places at once. Well, oh well. What can ya do right?
@harley.333 That’s a really cool way to get introduced to DC by the way, if you ask me. I can’t say I’m familiar with any of the stories you mentioned though. I know Invasion! from the Arrowverse crossover but that’s it. Ah, wait, unless you mean Hal Jordan going crazy around the time of the Death of Superman…
More curiously though, what’s this about the Legion becoming kids?
Agreed. Invasion! is one of my favorite crossovers. It was extremely well executed. The main book worked on its own and at the same time the tie-ins actually added some interesting stories to the whole. And unlike some later crossovers everything pretty much fit together. I seem to recall one or two very minor mistakes, but for the most part everything fit together.
Looking back I’d argue that pretty much any era had its share of good an bad books and that’s true up until today. We are getting a lot more books today though and since some point in the 90’s it seemed that we got a number of books that really should never have seen the stands.
Then again I think it is good that we’ve gotten so much diversity and that they’ve actually allowed books that would not normally have been published to be published as we’ve gotten a lot of small gems over the years. Personally, I loved books like Chase, Chronos, and H-E-R-O, and while I would personally not shed a tear had I never read Xenobrood or Next for instance, I like the fact that even books like that are given a chance.
As for there having only been a few gems since Zero Hour I can’t quite agree. Just after Zero Hour we got Starman, Aztek, Young Heroes in Love, Resurrection Man, Chase, Creeper, Young Justice, Martian Manhunter (Ostrander/Mandrake), Birds of Prey and JSA to name just some of the books that came between Zero Hour and 2000. The New 52 has also had some great books since 2012.
I do agree that it seems that they hadn’t properly plotted out a course for the universe when they did the New 52. It seems there were quite a few last minute calls and that originally it wasn’t intended as a big reboot of the entire universe.
[quote=“LittleHandAlex, post:25, topic:623088”]
I know Invasion! from the Arrowverse crossover but that’s it. Ah, wait, unless you mean Hal Jordan going crazy around the time of the Death of Superman…[/quote]
He meant Hal going crazy around the Death of Superman and not during Invasion! Invasion! is a pretty cool story and even if you’re mostly familiar with the New 52 universe it is worth a read. You can find it at DC Universe here: Invasion!
He is referring to the Legion reboot that came as a result of Zero Hour. The new Legion, which was also dubbed the Archie-Legion by some at the time, was a complete reboot of the Legion, which started with the origin of the team and moved on with younger versions of the characters as well as new additions. Despite being a huge Legion of Super-Heroes fan and saddened to see my favorite team of all being replaced I actually quite enjoyed this new take on them.
Part of the reason I wasn’t all that upset might be that just prior to the reboot we had gotten a new series called the Legionnaires which starred what at the time was thought to be clones of the originals, but younger, and I really liked that series. The new book while being a reboot pretty much kept this lighter version of the characters while trying new things, which was enough to keep me hooked.
The two books were very much linked together and you pretty much had to read both, but if you’re interested in seeing a different take on the characters than you’ve seen during the New 52 and the new Reboot I highly suggest looking them up.
They are also available at DC Universe (start at issue 0 with both series, the issues before that are in the old continuity)